naraburns nihil supernum
11mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Is this whole line of moral questioning useful? I consider it a given that the civilness is based on security, safety, abundance, lawfulness, peace and so on. Teasing out religious and cultural differences is a little interesting, though I think misses the point. It's fairly universal that stripping away these civilization cornernstones make people more savage.
The more interesting question is, is it ever possible for a 21st century civilization to collide with a 14th century one and for the 14th century one to be warmly embraced and adapted? And I say 14th century because I consider the currently problematic Islamic cultures of the world to be basically the Spanish inquisition with the sign flipped from Christian to Islam.
For a more extreme example, my mind immediately goes to European settlers meeting the already-here indigenous peoples of America. Despite the billions of words written about how harmoniously they must have existed in connection with the Earth and one another, I'm sure they were probably even more insane to deal with than the currently situated Hamas.
(Of course the native Americans didn't have adversaries of the European settlers hooking them up with modern assault weapons)
If 21st century is supposed to mean moving beyond fanaticism, neither civilization is part of 21st century and neither are even American non Jews who throw themselves extreme rhetoric about destroying Gaza.
It is immoral to side with the more prosperous fanatical racists when they could and should be behaving much better and respecting others human rights.
Someone could ironically use your way of thinking to justyfing Nazi conquest of more backward eastern europeans. That you use this kind of rhetoric in defense of Israel acting without any judgement is telling where you are coming from.
Of course many Jewish communists also thoght themselves superior intellectuals with the right to lead and abuse inferior reactionary gentile ethnic groups with tragic consequences.
Is this whole line of moral questioning useful? I consider it a given that the civilness is based on security, safety, abundance, lawfulness, peace and so on. Teasing out religious and cultural differences is a little interesting, though I think misses the point. It's fairly universal that stripping away these civilization cornernstones make people more savage.
Israel does not respect the security, safety, lawfulness and peace of the Palestinians.
It also doesn't respect it for various other countries they bomb.
And they don't respect it for western countries that their lobby promotes policies against them. And against freedom of speech and also the native people having any rights. It is important to note that Israelis have had key influence in Facebook enforcing racist jewish supremacist propaganda as the allowed speech.
The person who banned Trump from twitter was part of Israel's goverment. And Likudists in west including aligned neocons not only promoted mass migration in western countries but also have at times advocated Palestinians moving to europe as the means of solving Israel's problem.
Being too racist against others in the way that actually doesn't allow said nations to exist and prosper goes against others civilization. This mentality does not promote civilization for it is predatory and parasitical. While it is immoral for anyone to support it, especially any non Jew has no reason to support Jewish racism which will turn against them and has them on their crosshair too.
What I find ironic about the whole Jewish issue is the whole whining about racism against Jews by who, Jews of all people who are so pervasively racist as a group.
Now, lest we forget, the Jews aren't the only fanatics in the region. Same in the past, it is an inaccurate vision that sees Jews as center of all evil and any non Jewish group or ideology as center of good. Although the opposite vision which has been more common in 20th and 21st century is even more stupid and dangerous. But they definitely are bullies whenever they can get away with it. If you are a Jew and you try to be a good person you should have a problem with how your ethnic community tends to behave like and how other Jews tend to behave like.
And part of their ultranationalist mentality and racist mentality of both them and non Jewish, Jewish supremacists, is this asinine vision of Jews who never didn't do nothing and how you are insane to think otherwise. Which as we see when you employ your kind of more nazi like arguement, is disingenuous. And I absolutely do see the Jewish supremacist faction which includes non Jews too promote might is right supremacist rhetoric and also rhetoric about how the Jews are just so fucking superior to other groups and they just have the right to behave as they please.
The projection of this faction using rhetoric about racism tends to obscure that the correct response to the bad behavior of Jewish supremacists is to outright condemn them for their racism.
BTW if you are curious where I am coming from I actually think you can support your own group's prosperity while also respecting the rights of others.The homeland system where we have countries that ought to respect each others rights beeing a key part of international justice. Ideally we have something like international justice when this happens. And we don't when ethnic groups are getting, genocided, colonized by others, they lose their land and their rights of self determination and even self respect and right to a historical education of their own ethnic group (that is they are victims of cultural genocide which the nazis like many modern Jews in western countries and far leftists in general, are proponents of) are destroyed under the boot of foreign conquerors or those locals who align with said agenda.
Warmongering imperialists who destroy millions, especially relevant today the modern neocons are the kind of people who we need to keep down. Those who give platforms to those promoting the dangerous rhetoric we have seen these days advocating for warcrimes are culpable for what happens and have the blood of inoccents also on their hands. And those who cultivated an atmosphere where any ethnic group can do no wrong, in this case the Jews, are obviously racist supremacists in favor of said group or groups, but also culpable for whatever happens next in Gaza.
Regarding the Jews acting as racist bullies, it has to do with the dominance of ultranationalist ideology among Jews relating both to religion and even secular Jewish ultranationalism and even combo of Jewish ultranationalism with progressive extremism. This ideology is just classic ridiculous one sided racist propaganda that in clown world stage we are, is increasingly imposed. That Jews never did nothing wrong, that anything otherwise is racist conspiracy theory and insane (and the ridiculous term used by racists, the term antisemite), and that Jews both historically and presently have been oppressed and have the right to destroy and thriump over their oppressors (liek Egypt which enslaved Jews according to religious myth but not necessarilly according to fact). In combo with the same faction promoting the idea of Jews as just superior.
Classic ultranationalist propaganda 101 and non Jews who also perpetuate it are racist supremacists in favor of a foreign ethnic group. So the solution isn't the same predatory mentality against inoccents and against Jews, but not to tolerate the Jewish or other groups ultranationalist bullshit, and to impose a mentality to them that they ought to be less cruel, disrespectful of other groups rights and compromise and avoid having demands were they encroach on the rights of others.
Which Jewish community does in Palestine, stealing land, and doing plenty of warcrimes, plus what they have gotten away with getting already the moral path is a two state solution with 1967 borders. And they do, with control over powerful institutions in the west, and enforcing authoritarian racist supremacist propaganda, promoting mass migration, criminalizing and not tolerating healthy moderate nationalism to their outgroup while encouraging a progressive supremacist alliance of Jewish supremacist, black supremacists and others against western civilization.
This stopping is necessary part of an ideology in favor of the only international justice that ever made sense and ever worked. It is important not to confuse disregarding the fake moralism of principleless trying to manipulate you into allowing you to victimize you with abandoning morality altogether.
Anyway, Jews in current circumstances are not the victimized party but the victimizing party that should make amends towards others. I am not suggesting they become complete pushovers though towards say Hamas. There is a sweet spot and Jews are consistently on the wrong side of it.
*Obviously, when saying Jews here =/ all Jews, I don't think it needs saying but part of the nasty rhetorical tricks of misinterpretation. It does mean Jews as a pattern, average Jew, etc, etc.
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Notes -
Is this whole line of moral questioning useful? I consider it a given that the civilness is based on security, safety, abundance, lawfulness, peace and so on. Teasing out religious and cultural differences is a little interesting, though I think misses the point. It's fairly universal that stripping away these civilization cornernstones make people more savage.
The more interesting question is, is it ever possible for a 21st century civilization to collide with a 14th century one and for the 14th century one to be warmly embraced and adapted? And I say 14th century because I consider the currently problematic Islamic cultures of the world to be basically the Spanish inquisition with the sign flipped from Christian to Islam.
For a more extreme example, my mind immediately goes to European settlers meeting the already-here indigenous peoples of America. Despite the billions of words written about how harmoniously they must have existed in connection with the Earth and one another, I'm sure they were probably even more insane to deal with than the currently situated Hamas.
(Of course the native Americans didn't have adversaries of the European settlers hooking them up with modern assault weapons)
Just nitpicking, but didn’t the British arm the natives during the American War of Independence?
Not with AK-47s and RPGs
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If 21st century is supposed to mean moving beyond fanaticism, neither civilization is part of 21st century and neither are even American non Jews who throw themselves extreme rhetoric about destroying Gaza.
It is immoral to side with the more prosperous fanatical racists when they could and should be behaving much better and respecting others human rights.
Someone could ironically use your way of thinking to justyfing Nazi conquest of more backward eastern europeans. That you use this kind of rhetoric in defense of Israel acting without any judgement is telling where you are coming from.
Of course many Jewish communists also thoght themselves superior intellectuals with the right to lead and abuse inferior reactionary gentile ethnic groups with tragic consequences.
Israel does not respect the security, safety, lawfulness and peace of the Palestinians.
It also doesn't respect it for various other countries they bomb.
And they don't respect it for western countries that their lobby promotes policies against them. And against freedom of speech and also the native people having any rights. It is important to note that Israelis have had key influence in Facebook enforcing racist jewish supremacist propaganda as the allowed speech.
The person who banned Trump from twitter was part of Israel's goverment. And Likudists in west including aligned neocons not only promoted mass migration in western countries but also have at times advocated Palestinians moving to europe as the means of solving Israel's problem.
Being too racist against others in the way that actually doesn't allow said nations to exist and prosper goes against others civilization. This mentality does not promote civilization for it is predatory and parasitical. While it is immoral for anyone to support it, especially any non Jew has no reason to support Jewish racism which will turn against them and has them on their crosshair too.
What I find ironic about the whole Jewish issue is the whole whining about racism against Jews by who, Jews of all people who are so pervasively racist as a group.
Now, lest we forget, the Jews aren't the only fanatics in the region. Same in the past, it is an inaccurate vision that sees Jews as center of all evil and any non Jewish group or ideology as center of good. Although the opposite vision which has been more common in 20th and 21st century is even more stupid and dangerous. But they definitely are bullies whenever they can get away with it. If you are a Jew and you try to be a good person you should have a problem with how your ethnic community tends to behave like and how other Jews tend to behave like.
And part of their ultranationalist mentality and racist mentality of both them and non Jewish, Jewish supremacists, is this asinine vision of Jews who never didn't do nothing and how you are insane to think otherwise. Which as we see when you employ your kind of more nazi like arguement, is disingenuous. And I absolutely do see the Jewish supremacist faction which includes non Jews too promote might is right supremacist rhetoric and also rhetoric about how the Jews are just so fucking superior to other groups and they just have the right to behave as they please.
The projection of this faction using rhetoric about racism tends to obscure that the correct response to the bad behavior of Jewish supremacists is to outright condemn them for their racism.
BTW if you are curious where I am coming from I actually think you can support your own group's prosperity while also respecting the rights of others.The homeland system where we have countries that ought to respect each others rights beeing a key part of international justice. Ideally we have something like international justice when this happens. And we don't when ethnic groups are getting, genocided, colonized by others, they lose their land and their rights of self determination and even self respect and right to a historical education of their own ethnic group (that is they are victims of cultural genocide which the nazis like many modern Jews in western countries and far leftists in general, are proponents of) are destroyed under the boot of foreign conquerors or those locals who align with said agenda.
Warmongering imperialists who destroy millions, especially relevant today the modern neocons are the kind of people who we need to keep down. Those who give platforms to those promoting the dangerous rhetoric we have seen these days advocating for warcrimes are culpable for what happens and have the blood of inoccents also on their hands. And those who cultivated an atmosphere where any ethnic group can do no wrong, in this case the Jews, are obviously racist supremacists in favor of said group or groups, but also culpable for whatever happens next in Gaza.
Regarding the Jews acting as racist bullies, it has to do with the dominance of ultranationalist ideology among Jews relating both to religion and even secular Jewish ultranationalism and even combo of Jewish ultranationalism with progressive extremism. This ideology is just classic ridiculous one sided racist propaganda that in clown world stage we are, is increasingly imposed. That Jews never did nothing wrong, that anything otherwise is racist conspiracy theory and insane (and the ridiculous term used by racists, the term antisemite), and that Jews both historically and presently have been oppressed and have the right to destroy and thriump over their oppressors (liek Egypt which enslaved Jews according to religious myth but not necessarilly according to fact). In combo with the same faction promoting the idea of Jews as just superior.
Classic ultranationalist propaganda 101 and non Jews who also perpetuate it are racist supremacists in favor of a foreign ethnic group. So the solution isn't the same predatory mentality against inoccents and against Jews, but not to tolerate the Jewish or other groups ultranationalist bullshit, and to impose a mentality to them that they ought to be less cruel, disrespectful of other groups rights and compromise and avoid having demands were they encroach on the rights of others.
Which Jewish community does in Palestine, stealing land, and doing plenty of warcrimes, plus what they have gotten away with getting already the moral path is a two state solution with 1967 borders. And they do, with control over powerful institutions in the west, and enforcing authoritarian racist supremacist propaganda, promoting mass migration, criminalizing and not tolerating healthy moderate nationalism to their outgroup while encouraging a progressive supremacist alliance of Jewish supremacist, black supremacists and others against western civilization.
This stopping is necessary part of an ideology in favor of the only international justice that ever made sense and ever worked. It is important not to confuse disregarding the fake moralism of principleless trying to manipulate you into allowing you to victimize you with abandoning morality altogether.
Anyway, Jews in current circumstances are not the victimized party but the victimizing party that should make amends towards others. I am not suggesting they become complete pushovers though towards say Hamas. There is a sweet spot and Jews are consistently on the wrong side of it.
*Obviously, when saying Jews here =/ all Jews, I don't think it needs saying but part of the nasty rhetorical tricks of misinterpretation. It does mean Jews as a pattern, average Jew, etc, etc.
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