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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   28109 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 18, 2023

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The big picture question is why wasn't he extradited already, considering that he's been wanted by India/Interpol since 2016 for involvement in what seems to be clearcut terrorism. (theatre bombing)

Given the history with Air India, he doesn't seem like somebody we would normally want to keep around, had India made a request to bring him back for trial -- I wonder whether it's wise for Trudeau to stir the pot too much on what did or didn't happen in between now and then?

Part of me wonders how much of this is Trudeau trying to save face. Did he try to call Modi's bluff in some backroom deal only to find out that "the bluff" wasn't a bluff? That would be pretty on-brand for him.

There's a theory that Treudeau was forced to point the finger at India because a news story was coming out that implicated them. He needed to get ahead of the story responsibly provide accurate information to the Canadian people.

he's been wanted by India/Interpol

The Interpol reference might not mean much. There has apparently been quite a bit of abuse of Interpol procedures on the part of authoritarian governments in recent years.

India is supposed to be more or less of an ally of Canada AFAIK; we're not talking about some banana republic here. Canadian officials would not arrest just on the basis of an Interpol warrant, but if India files an extradition request we should be doing it if it's in accord with our treaty. (Which I'm pretty sure bombing a theatre is)

I am sure that all of that is generally true (although there are certainly plenty of defenses to extradition in Canada. It is not enough to simply demonstrate that the person has been charged with a serious crime). My only point was that the fact that Interpol has issued an arrest warrant does not, in and of itself, necessarily mean anything.

The interpol warrant is not dispositive here -- the point is that if India wanted him back, it's odd that this hasn't been going through the normal channels for extradition -- yes that is rejected sometimes, but usually countries will at least go through the process unless Foreign Affairs has already told them 'nah, bro' through backchannels. We do have a treaty, you can read it if you want: https://treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=101286

"Bombing a movie theatre" is normally a thing that is not subject to the various loopholes in extradition treaties, and the Interpol warrant indicates that India has at least enough evidence to make a plausible case. I'm wondering why they didn't pursue it.

The interpol warrant is not dispositive here

I didn't say it was.

it's odd that this hasn't been going through the normal channels for extradition

How do you know it hasn't? This indicates that Indian authorities did not seek extradition until August of 2022. If that is correct, obviously proceeding would not have concluded by the time of his killing in June.

Bombing a movie theatre" is normally a thing that is not subject to the various loopholes in extradition treaties

Says who? Do you think the rule is that in order for a foreign country to avoid the protections afforded to Canadian citizens, all it has to do is allege a serious crime? Are Canadians morons?

Are Canadians morons?

Are you? Interpol doesn't give out warrants on a bare allegation, and neither does Canada extradite on that basis -- sometimes we refuse to extradite for minor charges, or things that would not be crimes in Canada -- bombing a movie theatre is not those, that's the point. The recent extradition looks like it's related to more recent crimes -- but even so, it's been over a year with no action -- it all seems a bit strange.

What even is your point here?

Interpol doesn't give out warrants on a bare allegation,

  1. "A Red Notice is NOT an arrest warrant and is NOT based on any INTERPOL investigation"
  2. I was referring to an allegation by India, not Interpol

sometimes we refuse to extradite for minor charges, or things that would not be crimes in Canada -- bombing a movie theatre is not those, that's the point.

No, the point is that there are other causes for denial of extradition, including, most importantly, the severity of the sentence faced by the person whose extradition is being sought. In particular, Canada will not extradite a person if that person faces the death penalty if convicted.

More specifically, the point is that your claim that Canada will ignore the protections provided its citizens if another country simply files super-serious charges, especially given the abuses I note above re abuse of Interpol red notices.

but even so, it's been over a year with no action

  1. How do you know that there has been no action? Do you have any idea how long extraditions usually take? Did the Indian government ever actually file a formal request for extradition? If so, when? Because the article I linked to stated only that local authorities in Punjab were seeking extradition, but of course the treaty says, "The request for extradition shall be made through diplomatic channels," so that means it has to be made by the Indian federal govt, not the local govt.
  2. One reason it has been "over a year with no action" is that he has been dead since June. And, let's take a look at a famous recent Canadian extradition case: That of Meng Wanzhou. That Wikipedia page says that it took more than a year between the receipt of the extradition request in Dec of 2018 and the start of the first phase of the extradition hearing in January of 2020. So, where is your evidence that 10 months with "no [public] action" is

You didn't answer the question.

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