This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Agreed. Definitely not abuse though.
How would you define "emotional abuse", in particular from female to male? I agree that the situation described isn't violence in any reasonable sense of the word, but if you consider the toolkit of many women, this sort of tears-as-weapon has to be categorized as something, (or I suppose it doesn't, but if it were...) For me, emotional abuse seems to fit. From my point of view she is right to feel at least a pang of guilt (though if her bf is older than a certain age he should at least have an inkling what's going on).
Maybe in place of "abuse:"Manipulation? Manipulative behavior? Where a man might resort to strongarm--which only fails in the presence of a stronger arm or someone willing to take the pain--many women, when faced with a situation where they need to ply their partner in ways where for example seduction won't be effective, do not have the confidence or strength to be physically intimidating, and thus resort to these emotionally manipulative tactics. And let's be frank: Guilting someone in this way can take its toll. Boymen everywhere whose mothers pulled this stunt are walking around with serious neuroses (this kind of talk is outside my wheelhouse but hopefully you know what I mean.)
If a mother did this to her child, would you consider it closer to abuse? I'm just trying to clarify my own opinion here.
If we take the woman at her word and she's genuinely just crying because she's sad, then it sounds like she's just really immature and bad at emotional self-regulation. Describing this behaviour as "emotionally manipulative" implies that it's calculated and deceitful - some people can consciously choose to turn on the waterworks on command, and abuse this skill in order to get what they want from other people. If that's what she was doing, I would have no problem describing the behaviour as emotionally manipulative, maybe even abusive. But if she really is sincerely bursting into tears because she's sad and it's not calculated and intentional, then it's something else.
I think "selfish" or "inconsiderate" might be better words, and neither one is as grave an accusation as "abusive" or "manipulative".
As to the broader question of what constitutes emotional abuse from a woman to a man, I think that most of the red flags people are warned about are gender-neutral. Harsh insults, extremely harsh criticism, controlling behaviour, attempting to isolate your partner from their family/friends, paranoid jealous behaviour, gaslighting, failure to respect boundaries, lashing out, threatening suicide if you don't get your own way - women can be just as guilty of all of the above as men.
Ok, clear. Yes, it's possible she is just a hair-trigger weeper, but I suspect that's learned behavior with a touch of lack of self -awareness. Like the polar bear who hits a button and a fish cake falls out the chute might grow to just like red buttons.
I had a student (female) once whose boyfriend, if he realized he had offended her, would become violent... against himself. Like punch and slap himself until she became vocal enough to get him to stop the self-harming--often this took the form of her acquiescence to some need of his. Very bizarre dynamic.
Jesus, that's the kind of thing non-verbal autistic children do when they're upset.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link