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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   30072 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 21, 2023

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Your hypothesis is stupid. It’s needlessly complicated ...

I feel like we read different things.

Here’s a simpler explanation: people opposed segregation because they thought it was bad.

I agree and I agree that segregation is bad. The issue here is the side effects to the solutions proposed. There's a lot of people who greatly benefited from segregation that are now proposing solutions that will mainly effect other people. I'm not saying this is done maliciously but refusing to acknowledge this helps no one (and fuels the idea of 5d-chess).

I’m talking about

Now with the crime wave affecting everyone people have no choice but to take rehabilitative justice seriously.

And

But if you have gangs selling drugs in your kid's school and a crack den next door, you'll have to care about and fix the problem, right? Right?

I don’t object to OP’s argument about skin in the game. I think assessing the cost-benefit of a policy (such as busing, soft-on-crime, or general segregation) is a legitimate discussion to have. The unreasonable bit is asserting that progressives are doing this as 5D chess. That they aren’t removing the thing because the thing is bad, but because it will make other people actually fix it. That’s convoluted and uncharitable.

As @anti_dan pointed out, place enough value on fairness, and you’ll come up with something like the soft-on-crime DAs. If you’re enough of a utopian, maybe you really do think the problems will go away when you remove a discriminatory pressure. These are more realistic explanations!

Your hypothesis is stupid. It’s needlessly complicated, and paints your enemies as both naive and devious.

I don’t object to OP’s argument about skin in the game.

I'm confused. I think I misunderstood your tone.

As @anti_dan pointed out, place enough value on fairness, and you’ll come up with something like the soft-on-crime DAs... If you’re enough of a utopian, maybe you really do think the problems will go away when you remove a discriminatory pressure.

Right, this is my point. A lot of people have utopian ideas but ignore the unintended consequences of those ideas. This gets galling when the people calling the shots (with those ideals) don't live in the area and don't have to deal with the consequences. Screaming racism because they don't want to deal with that criticism is disgusting.

If you OK a homeless encampment in the park, you don't get to ignore the girl who gets raped.

Aye. No objections to that.

Argument from side effects is legitimate. Claiming that opponents overlooked something, undervalued something, and so on—perfectly fine. Asserting that they were actually choosing policies because they wanted to force the majority to reckon with a problem? Now he’s starting to get uncharitable, not to mention convoluted.

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