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LightOnlyComesFromHeat  2yr ago (text post)   2525 thread views

Light Only Comes From Heat

The phrase "light only comes from heat" sounds so judicious. Who wouldn't want a pleasant, decorous argument where everyone respects everyone, no one's feelings are hurt, and plenty of light is generate, but no nasty heat.

Yet, if you think about it, where else does light come from but heat? Things that are very cold give off no light, yet everything that emits light will also be hot. If you don't like heat, you've no desire for light. If you want light, you musk risk heat.

Speaking from my own experience, it is the forceful, honest and clear arguments that have persuaded me, or have at the very least lodged the seed of doubt in my own mind, not those who argue by endlessly trying to flatter me, or search for middle ground, or who pretend to respect my argument more than they actually do.

All truth seekers should expunge this silly cliche from their vocabulary.

I end with the immortal words of John Milton:

I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue, unexercised and unbreathed, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race where that immortal garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat

-15
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The "heat" in the sidebar does not refer to "honest and clear arguments," it refers to arguments designed to provoke strong emotions that overwhelm the cold, rational part of our thinking that should have significant sway over our decision-making.

provoke strong emotions that overwhelm the cold, rational part of our thinking

Why are 'emotions' somehow separated from being 'cold and rational'? From evolution, important issues that are serious risks or opportunities should be cases of more "rationality", not less, right? If really is <genocide / degenerate / causing cataclysm>, that can't really be discussed without 'being emotional', yet it's important to address. Indeed, the more important or potentially ruinous or useful a topic, the more 'emotional' it will be, so ... what if the entire 'provoking emotion' thing is sort of a misleading way to try to prevent people from 'having conflicts' or caring too much so everyone can be nice and go about their day? And what do we lose by forgetting what causes those 'emotions'?

Emotions should reveal your preferences, they shouldn't guide your decision making.

I want to stop feeling angry. Anger would drive me to violence, which is usually irrational. The rational part of me controls my mind and tells me to separate myself from the situation.

what if the entire 'provoking emotion' thing is sort of a misleading way to try to prevent people from 'having conflicts' or caring too much so everyone can be nice and go about their day? And what do we lose by forgetting what causes those 'emotions'?

If you think someone is arguing in bad faith, walk away. There is no point in continuing that conversation.

That isn't generally how the phrase is employed. Heat, is not I think a synonym for rhetoric. I cannot think of anyone, save perhaps Noam Chomsky, who is not guilty of employing rhetoric and oratory to appeal to our emotions.

In my own personal experience, both as someone who has engaged in arguments and who enjoys listening to them, "heat not light" is used when someone is forcefully stating an unpopular or unfashionable opinion.

And by the way, why is reason "cold"?

I cannot think of anyone, save perhaps Noam Chomsky, who is not guilty of employing rhetoric and oratory to appeal to our emotions.

I get the rest of your post, but holding up the comical atrocity denier Chomsky is hard to take. He uses a neutral tone and series of seemingly sensible statements to justify his favored brand of horrific crimes against humanity. He was a shill for the Khmer Rouge in opposition to people correctly claiming that they were engaged in horrific mass murder.

Chomsky is the worst sort of apologist for mass murder.

Heat is a general pattern of provoking people. It tries to inflame people so they instinctively fall into old patterns or arrange themselves along tribal lines. It is invariably, deeply emotional.

Decisions and behavior driven by emotions are inherently irrational. There may be a rational argument to support the decision or behavior, but that is an after-the-fact rationalization.

Reason is cold because emotion is hot. They are opposite ends of a spectrum, and that carries through into the culturally accepted metaphor.

And by the way, why is reason "cold"?

In terms of etymology, I believe it's because when you're physiologically aroused (sympathetic nervous system, fight-or-flight) increased bloodflow to the extremities makes your skin warmer - "hot-blooded".

To do something "cold-blooded", therefore, is to do it outside a crisis, with time for forethought - "cold-blooded murder", for instance.

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