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Culture War Roundup for the week of July 31, 2023

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Have you been to NYC and gone beyond the "WTC <-> Times Square" region ? NYC is amazing and a lot of your complaints don't seem to apply to the rest of the city. I understand why you'd dislike the "WTC <-> Times Square" region. Even those who live in NYC hate it.

This is what non-expensive middle-class residential neighborhoods look like :

  • Prospect Lefferts gardens 1 & nearby park 1.1

  • Astoria 2 & nearby park 2.2

  • Caroll Gardens 3

And I didn't even mention the actually amazing residential neighborhoods that are more upper-middle class like Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Park Slope, Clinton Hill or the waterside parts of Jersey.

Have you been to NYC and gone beyond the "WTC <-> Times Square" region ?

Yes, and I've generally hated it. That said, I was just having a conversation the other day about the best cities in the world and I remarked that I haven't really had enough experience with New York to truly compare it to Tokyo or London in any meaningful way, so sure, grain of salt. My impression really is consistent with what most people I know that aren't personally attached to New York think though, which is definitely a contrast with OP's claim that Americans want to either live in New York or a suburb. Pretty much no one that currently resides in Denver is envious of the New York lifestyle.

Prospect Lefferts gardens 1 & nearby park 1.1

I just looked on Redfin and it appears that 1K square foot condos in the area are seven-figures. That this passes for "non-expensive" in the area reinforces to me that you pretty much have to be rich to swing even a tolerably decent standard of living in NYC.

And I didn't even mention the actually amazing residential neighborhoods that are more upper-middle class like Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Park Slope, Clinton Hill or the waterside parts of Jersey.

On the flip side, I spent some time in Greenwich, which I would describe, roughly, as "hell on Earth". Among places where there's evident affluence, I've never been somewhere that I wanted to escape more.

Greenwich

Greenwich is also in the "WTC <-> Times Square" region. Greenpoint is in Brooklyn. You're correct that the densest parts of Manhattan are overwhelming in an alien manner, where someone who hasn't grown up there will find it too intimidating.

Funnily enough, having grown up in a 'nice residential part' of the arguably densest city in the world, I feel a similar 'hell on earth I need to escape' feeling when I walk through a sprawling maze-like suburb.

it appears that 1K square foot condos in the area are seven-figures

A 1k sqft house will be around 800k in prospect lefferts gardens today. But it is also one of the most rapidly gentrifying parts of Brooklyn. It was closer to $500k just a few years ago. Not cheap, but reasonable for the region. Especially given that NYC prices are destined to hold stable. Remember, a public school teacher or a blue collar worker in NYC can easily make around $80-100k. (Subway drivers & Public school teachers make ~90K), so it is not too bad.

Pretty much no one that currently resides in Denver is envious of the New York lifestyle.

This is a fallacy. No one wants to turn any city into NYC, because that's impossible. No place is NYC.

The goal is to make urban down towns less hostile. Take a 500 acre downtown circle and strip 2 car lanes from the all roads there. Add high-frequency bus only lanes & bike lanes that run within that small zone. Replace parking lots with missing middle-housing. Put large parking lots on the highway approach to this area. There, you just made your urban hellhole an urban paradise, provided more housing, and car owners aren't any more inconvenienced. Maybe move downtown Denver closer to downtown Miami in scale.

The goal to make suburbs less Hostile. To remove a few yards and add a few triple deckers. You'd expect it to look like Seattle's recently developing Wallingford/fremont neighborhoods than NYC. The suburban houses are still there, many yards are still there. It is still quiet, has good parking and feels safe. Or even Portland Maine. Both are perfectly walkable, bikeable urbanist darlings. There is even good bus connectivity within the main urban area.

Urbanists suggestions for rural areas are similarly in-keeping with the needs of a rural town. Northeastern villages are fairly walkable and cycle-able too. See Lincoln NH.

Urbanists suggestions for rural areas are similarly in-keeping with the needs of a rural town. Northeastern villages are fairly walkable and cycle-able too. See Lincoln NH.

Rural small towns are by definition extremely walkable -- their radius tends to be in the 1-2 mile range, and they all have grocery stores, schools and stuff.

What do the urbanists have in mind for fucking over rural small-towners?

Greenwich is also in the "WTC <-> Times Square" region.

Sorry, I was referring to Greenwich, CT as a mirror to the North, in reference to the New Jersey portion of things, not Greenwich Village. My mistake for the ambiguity. I do stand by really, really disliking it there though.

Funnily enough, having grown up in a 'nice residential part' of the arguably densest city in the world, I feel a similar 'hell on earth I need to escape' feeling when I walk through a sprawling maze-like suburb.

So do I! The places that I understand the desire to live in the least of all types of housing are the McMansion buildouts in modern developments. I can talk myself through what people see in it, but I can't imagine even considering living there. Incredibly dense urban areas have their charms to visit even though I wouldn't live there, rural areas have obvious perks for the more independent minded (still not me), the less uniform suburbs often look fine to me, but that cookie-cutter development just looks awful. My real preference is big towns and small cities that are dense enough to have all of the amenities I'd like, but still fairly low vehicular traffic, which is exactly what I've chosen for a location.

We're actually 100% on the same page with regard to urbanist policy, entertainingly enough.

As an addendum, I really do need to apologize for being a dick about New York. It's honestly pretty uncalled for. I'm well aware that it's home to quite a few people that love it there. Sorry about that.