site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   32320 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 17, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I fail to see any pissing contest about hunting at all, given that Hlynka is claiming that Chihuahuas are hunting dogs, and I'm pointing out that for the purposes of hunting, they're pretty much the last on the list.

In a duel, I'll take my chances.

Multiple people have remarked on our very own Kulak's meteoric rise on Twitter, so he wrote a post about how he thinks he did it, and it boils down to "write politically charged things that are 100% true, but sound fake, and let people walk into rakes".

I'm not a hunter, much like yourself my background is that of an utter nerd. I do know when I'm walking into a trap though, and ex-military dude from rural America telling me "Chihuahuas are hunting dogs" and daring me to contradict him looks like a trap.

Here's another idea that might be more in line with your nerdy nature: have you considered asking ChatGPT "are Chihuahuas useful for hunting"?

Multiple people have remarked on our very own Kulak's meteoric rise on Twitter

Nah, Kulak jumped the shark and sold off to the Man Twitter "trad" and Z types for likes and retweets.

Someone who claims to be the most extreme anarchist ever, someone who sees war and conscription as the ultimate atrocity, someone who understand that the past is the shittiest third world shithole country and there is nothing any sane man would want to RETVRN to, is now simping for, of all people, the tsars of Russia.

Sad. Daddy Makhno in his heavenly encampment is not amused.

Plenty of trad Z types on twitter, few of them gained such a big following in such a short time, so I don't see what you're disagreeing with.

I am not disagreeing with anything, only slightly bewildered about self proclaimed anarchist admiring tsars of Russia and, now, pre-revolutionary French monarchy and nobility.

Well, it is Twitter, place for everything and everyone.

Already have, if Bing Chat counts. As is glaringly obvious, the answer is no. I'm better informed about hunting than the majority of Mottizens, as weird as that may sound, so I'm not surprised in the least. Certainly nobody with any brains would call them a hunting dog!

Well, I'll let the two of you fight it out. But if you have so much knowledge about hunting, it's weird how you're talking about it like it's about siccing your dog to rip out the throat of the game.

That was a joke, if it's not obvious. I don't think an argument on the Motte is in any way likely to end up in us facing off in anything but words!

Yeah, I meant fight out the argument about hunting dogs.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats