This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
No, it's not "very few people" who benefit from satellite internet, or even if the number meets your standard for very few, the ones who do are significantly wealthy and able to pay for it.
A quick Google shows 1.5 million subscribers.
Starlink is very popular in rural America and Australia where previously getting 1-10 mbps for 5-10 times the money and tiny data caps were the norm.
It is also incredibly useful out at sea, and the commercial users such as cruise ships are happy to pay tens of thousands at a minimum when the quality of service blows everything else out of the water. Not to mention the military applications, as so clearly shown in Ukraine.
I don't put much weight in that hypothesis, even if I grant it's possible.
If that was the case, they'd aim more for a minimum viable product deal instead of launching as many as the FTC will let them.
Commercial viability requires a high Q for the fusion process, but that's necessary and not sufficient in itself. It certainly can't be profitable if it uses more electricity than it produces.
SpaceX is so much cheaper than all of the other launch providers it's not even funny anymore. And it takes that degree of outright embarrassment for the entrenched interests in the US legislature to tolerate it taking away their NASA pork money.
So I went and checked a few providers that came up on Google, and put some random place in Bumfuck, Arizona as the address. Viasat indeed ended up quite underwhelming but HughesNet already has decent speeds with decent data caps, for pretty much the same price as Starlink.
Here's a more comprehensive comparison where Viasat looks a bit better, Starlink still comes up ontop in terms of quality, but in terms of bang/buck, what am I supposed to be seeing there that is so mind blowing? Lower pings? Am I supposed to be gaming while enjoying my cruise?
As for the 1.5 million subscribers, I admit that's more than I expected, but they require over 4000 satellites to service them, which works out to 375 subscribers per satellite, which apparently have a 5 year lifespan, while the old fashioned geosynchronous orbit based providers need a single satellite to cover a third of the globe. Pardon me if I remain skeptical about the profitability of this whole idea.
My only point here was that the comparison to fusion power is invalid. If you wanted to deliver cargo (or people, which SpaceX still cannot do to my knowledge) to orbit, you could do that with the Shuttle even if it was pricey. If you need a couple of MWh of electricity, you will not get it with fusion, no matter how much you pay for it.
... am I reading this parenthetical wrong? The first Falcon 9 + Crew Dragon demo was 2019, the first test crew 2020, and they've put nearly 40 people in orbit with it.
It's currently the only operational American vehicle that has put people in orbit; everything else is either suborbital-only (Spaceship Two, New Shepard) or delayed (Dreamchaser's uncrewed tests from 2016 to hopefully-2024; Starliner's crewed test from 2017 to TBD; New Glenn from 2020 to hopefully-2023 for cargo, with crew plans quiet). The second best options for putting Americans in orbit right now are Soyuz (try not to talk politics on the ride up...) and SLS block 1 + Orion (crew launch scheduled for 2024, at only a couple billion dollars per launch on top of the tens of billions R&D).
No, you read it right. I follow some space news but not very closely, so I somehow missed it. I'll happily wear the DUM DUM hat for the rest of the day for this one.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I suspect Starlink, like Iridium, is being largely supported by a certain less-cost-sensitive user, with the commercial users being gravy on top.
They're definitely going to be paying off some of the R&D that way. Starshield has its own separate satellites and its own network, so you'd think Starlink revenue would still have to cover marginal costs for the commercial sats, but even if Starshield never needs to piggy-back on the commercial network, I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX is getting extra cash to guarantee the presence of all that (from an asat perspective) "chaff"...
More options
Context Copy link
Yeah, that's pretty much what I suspect myself.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link