site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   33486 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 19, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

People who don't agree with you are obvious dupes.

What part of the promises of the gay-marriage promoter have been kept?

Apologies, I didn't read your comment thoroughly enough. I agree about the gay marriage propaganda bit, and thought Andrew Sullivan was being too naive (or opportunistic) in arguing that legalising gay marriage would give gay sexual activity an outlet where they didn't have to be promiscuous, that marriage would - the same way for straight men - be a civilising force. That didn't happen, and now Sullivan finds himself on the trailing edge of the Overton Window, being excoriated for his views on trans rights activism which (to me at least) echo the kind of opposition to gay rights activism, and the same jeers of "phobe! hater! ist!" were being thrown at the straights.

How does it feel, now the boot is on the other foot?

The supermajority of progressives have kept the promises. Not a single conservative, on the other hand, was able to deliver God, for one example.

  • -20

Not a single conservative, on the other hand, was able to deliver God, for one example.

I dunno, all the screaming about Roe vs Wade and "I'm getting sterilised because I'm afraid they're going to ban birth control next" seems to be some sort of signal that maybe something or other happened.

Abortion rollback is to God as progressive overreaches are to FALGSC (except of course God is less realistic).

Abortion rollback happened though, and I believe God is real, so conservatism gets a win on both there so far as I'm concerned 😀

Really? No more piss orgies? No more bathouses? No bullying of Christians into participating into gay weddings? No attempts at child indoctrination?

No more stoning? No more conversion camps? No more "camps for troubled youths"? No more parental abuse?

Two can play the "as long as your side has even one excess you're duping us" game.

We have the conversion camps still, and camps for troubled youths. They are just run by pedos trying to trans and gay them...

You and @sun are both just engaging in low effort "I know you are but what am I"s here. Knock it off.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats