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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   32787 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023

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I don't think you read my comment closely enough. I claimed both of them were due to shortsighted pride but one of them was a lesser, "omission" type deal and the other is a much more brazen "commission" type, which I do think should be treated differently. I think most people agree the intent of the server was to avoid embarrassing FOIA type revelations rather than a deliberate and insecure discussion of top secret stuff.

I claimed both of them were due to shortsighted pride but one of them was a lesser, "omission" type deal and the other is a much more brazen "commission" type, which I do think should be treated differently.

This framing would make sense if you were going harder on Clinton than Trump.

Storing documents in a shower that you want is an omission. Sending documents over an unsecured internet line and then deleting them while you know an investigation is happening is commission. Somehow I don't think the FBI would have gone easy on Trump if when they conducted the raid all they found was a burning pile of papers and some cans of petrol in the toilet.

See my other responses in this thread -- deletions did not happen by Clinton or on her orders and evidence about the process that was investigated by the FBI found nothing strange or odd about the process of marking private emails nor the actual deletion by a panicked subordinate. Sure the deletion sounds nefarious but this turned out not to be the case. You are mischaracterizing this deletion entirely and I encourage you to re-check your sources about it, as we now know much more than we did initially. Her crime was being told "your setup is insecure" and her going "well no I like it the way it is and don't want to break things" like an old tech-illiterate person in a position of power frequently does. That's akin to omission because the email server was one she had been using for eight-ish years as a senator and didn't want to change. It's not like she made a big deal about setting it up that way, just that no one relevant knew about it or if they knew, they were a junior person who didn't raise a stink about it.

Trump's timeline is different. He's literally pestered both formally and informally to give stuff back, doesn't give back the majority of it, and then is on record as taking action to hide or move other stuff. The search warrant was an unusual step, I agree -- one that proved to be wholly valid as they found classified stuff in new unexpected locations. There are elements of obstruction and admission of guilt and of lying to the government. It was a crime of omission initially, as there were admittedly a LOT of documents and I'm sure a lot WERE personal, but as soon as the official requests are coming in Trump has a duty and legal obligation to do his due diligence and return stuff. But what, at that juncture, was his response? Not just ignoring the requests, but deliberately doing the opposite. Right at that moment, it becomes a crime of commission.

deletions did not happen by Clinton or on her orders

You actually think this is true? Or is it what the FBI wanted to conclude so it structured its investigation to not probe that question too much?

I am not mischaracterizing what happened. I got all the information from the IG report that is one of the most pro-FBI sources.

I read your comment fine. I may have misunderstood your point, probably because you claimed Clinton was so much lesser that nobody should give a shit and it has zero relevance to politics(!) and Trump was NOT negligence, NOT over-classification, but WILLFUL retention of government secrets. But I think your goal was to defend Clinton by bringing Trump into it based on an argument nobody here had made, which this follow up only solidifies. What exactly do you think were the embarrassing foia type revelations that "most people agree" she wiped the server to avoid, and how specifically do they differ from a deliberate and insecure discussion of top secret stuff?

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