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Again, can you explain your point with respect to my claim? Are you claiming the caste system in India has non-Indo European origins? Is it not an example of a genetic strategy as a religion as I have said? Hinduism is the expression of the unique combination of genes and environment on the continent, I wouldn't expect it to be identical to all IE civilizations. But caste endogamy is absolutely a common feature in IE civilization and that feature in Indian civilization has IE origins.
The Roman Republic certainly experienced genetic change as it expanded, and the prominence of the Patrician class waned as the empire decayed (isn't there a lesson there if we contrast Rome with the longevity of Indian civilization?) But we still see an IE civilization with a caste system that correlated with steppe ancestry, conquering nations with lower steppe ancestry until it itself was conquered by barbarians with greater steppe ancestry.
According to David Reich, "the population that contributed genetic material to South Asia was (roughly) 60% Yamnaya [my note: European steppe ancestry], ~30% European farmer-like ancestry".
Even with the particularly endogamous features of Indian civilization, modern day Northern Europeans bear far greater genetic similarity to the bronze age migrants, including the Aryans, than any peoples in India. I would likewise say the Bell Beaker-derived Patricians of Rome bore far greater genetic similarity to these Aryans than any modern population in India, with that similarity decaying as the Roman Empire integrated other nations into civic society.
Endogamy is a greater concern in IE civilizations with greater diversity including: South Africa, Latin America, Colonial America, the British Empire. Granted none of those are like the Hindu caste system, and those are all examples of post-Christianization European civilizations which would again support my argument for religious changes being synonymous with changes in genetic strategy (the Catholic church outlawing cousin marriage is significant here). Still, those civilizations had caste system with high levels of endogamy including in America, where the colonials resisted mixing with the natives.
Well we have more precise ways for understanding genetic similarities. I would be interested to know the Yamnayan ancestry for different sub-populations in Iran, including the sub-populations you claim are more genetically similar to the Aryans than the Brahmin. I don't necessarily doubt it I'm just not aware of that data. I see this guy on Reddit, that's significant Yamnaya ancestry but not that close to the Brahmin.
No it is not, not anywhere close to the extent of Indian society. And the non-Indo-European Dravidians have this endogamy too. I have gave you examples of Indo-European exogamy like the non-Indo-European Etruscans who were found to be identical to the Romans next to them even before they were assimilated to a Roman identity.
The Bell Beakers who both groups were half assimilated were almost 50% EEF. Far more than the Corded Ware Culture people like the Aryans who were only 20-30%. The Latins had nothing like the endogamy in India. Over 2000 years they became identical to their non-Indo-European neighbors. In 3500 years the Brahmins still have more steppe and Harappan ancestry. The Shudras in South India (who are denied, categorically, upper caste status by the Northern Indian Brahmins) have higher steppe and Harappan ancestry than the Dalits.
There is no evidence the Patrician class was more Indo-European in ancestry than the lower classes. Even the Etruscans had similar rates of R1b to the Romans. The Basque who are more EEF shifted than fellow Iberians have higher rates of R1b. The extremely steppe Swedish are modally the non-steppe I1 haplogroup.
The colonials resisted a little bit, but look at them now. They are not quite thoroughly mixed, but they are making great progress, and that is with large amounts of immigration from Europe and even the Middle East and Asia! It isn't panmixia, but you don't need that to remove genetic distinctions between populations. You only need a little.
Finally:
Here's a link on the Indian caste system being Harappan.
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/tag/india-genetics/
Here's a line on Eastern Iranian genetics.
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/12/descendants-of-ancient-european-fair.html
And here, note Brahmins are less than 30% Sintashta like ancestry even in the North-West.
https://razib.substack.com/p/among-afghans-jewel-of-the-dragon
Only the Jats and Rors who are clearly descended of ancient Eastern Iranian peoples, who invaded later, have more steppe ancestry, despite being considered low-caste Shudras.
I noticed the article makes similar claims that steppe ancestry wasn't related to social class in ancient Greece:
Who was the god among the Greco-Romans venerated as embodying the highest degree of power and beauty- worshipped as "The Most Greek" of the gods? It was Apollo the Hyperborean. Apollo was likewise known as Archegetes, meaning Apollo was a founder of civilizations and a colonizer, who "took pleasure" in the creation of cities and contrived their existence. The god embodies a race of civilizational founders who emerged from a northern realm. In the 4th century AD, the physician Adamantius described the "true Greek" - or where the "Hellenic race has been kept pure" as:
The Ionians in particular were understood as directly descended from Apollo.
Apollo was described as the most beautiful and perfect of the gods, establishing a breeding model and aspirational model for men. Here we see the Indo-European, Nordic type posited as a physical ideal among the ancient Greeks. Apollo is the unequivocal embodiment of the Indo-European gene worshipped by the Greco-Romans. The basis for your assertion that the Indian Caste system has non-IE origins is rationalized in your article with:
But caste subdivision was a fact of Greco-Roman civilization. In Ancient Greece the Phratry controlled access to civic society and citizenship. Phratry was itself considered a subdivision of Phyle- tribe, or clan. There were subdivisions within the Phratry known as Genos, from which we derive the modern words gene or genetics.
Unequivocally, in Greco-Roman society we see an identical concern with genetics as religion, including castes and their subdivisions, in the amelioration of an Indo-European gene. This is to say, the caste system in India is Indo-European, and after all both jati and varna are words of Indo-European origin.
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