Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
How does one quantify fashion?
Bear with me here, I am looking to buy some new clothes and already have an existing set of diverse clothes. From cargos to chinos. Thing is, when I wear some things, I get compliments on my cargos, while wearing other tops, they look silly. What is a good way of quantifying or making it into an equation, such if I were to put in coding terms
if pants_baggy;
I also have to buy new formals. I already have a black suit. Looking for any potential developments. I am aware it could just be a matter of trial and error, but there must be a general rule to coloring such as skin tone, contrast etc. What would be a natural progression? I’m thinking of a lightly striped black suit next. Or perhaps a navy blue one.
Any links/books/resources would be tremendously helpful. I am more cynical to the typical manosphere/male fashion pages. A bit more technicality would help.
There are two aspects to dressing well: Aesthetics and Associations. Broadly speaking, Aesthetics are what you look like and Associations are who you look like.
Aesthetics is largely governed by "classic" rules about color theory, structured vs unstructured garments, materials, etc. It is what you visually look like when people look at you. Broad shoulders are broad shoulders, and a tailored structured suit jacket is going to visually produce broader shoulders, whether it is 1980, 2023, or 1880; whether the person looking is French, Nigerian, Nebraskan, Japanese. Some colors will work with your skin/hair/eyes, some colors won't, whether those colors are Pantone's Color of the Year that year, or they are the color that immediately dates a kitchen tile to fifteen years ago.
Associations are largely governed by social fashions, by what people think about something. Brands are the pure and elemental form of this, the little Polo pony on the chest makes a t shirt "nicer" and "dressier" automatically, will be considered (by the membership/staff) more appropriate for a country club golf course than the exact same t shirt without the logo. The Supreme logo on any piece of crap makes it cooler to some subset of the population that I've never really understood. It depends when you are, where you are, who are are, and what the person viewing you thinks of you.
The former rules are, in general, eternal. The latter rules change from place to place and time to time, constantly. The former is, at least in theory, quantifiable as matters of proportion and color. Short of people with literal visual deficiencies, it will be the same to everyone. The latter is unquantifiable, a matter of je ne sais quoi and personal opinion.
The best general advice I can give is three simple points:
-- Work on your body and fitness, work on your skincare, work on your haircut. This will have a ton of impact on how you look in any clothes. Being fat but stylish is a silly decision.
-- Keep in mind who you are. I could nail street style, study it perfectly, I'll still look like a complete doofus; because it doesn't fit who I am. No English language fashion advice site talks enough about race when having this conversation, things read different and look different on White/Black/Asian people, for both aesthetic and association reasons.
-- Fit is king, and the only ways to get a good fit are to either tailor everything you own or to try on a TON of clothing from different brands. Fit varies so much between brands, don't listen to anyone describing a brand as having a "great fit" unless you try it on.
It's a useful distinction, and I see you've taken care to avoid "good/bad" judgements, but it's interesting you're still making positive claims under aesthetics which I think demand justification. For instance, that certain colours "will work". Oh will they? Why? Because something something colour wheel theory? What if I like the wrong combos? On what basis can you object? Pure appeal to popularity?
I don't think aesthetics are so quantifiable because year after year I see things that were once explained to me as hard fast prohibitions with hand-waving justifications like "because it would ruin the silhouette, obviously" then become the next big trend. Maybe I'm misreading here and you mean aesthetics are totally value-free. There's combos on the colour wheel axes and off, but it doesn't weigh in on whether either is more correct than the other.
The eye adjusts to certain color combinations. Colors that looked right in the 80s look wrong today and vice versa. This also goes for silhouette. The more something "wrong" is repeated the more it begins to look "right" until it becomes "passé" (unless it never reaches that stage, different things work in different cycles and on different timelines. Fashion is extremely complicated and trying to explain it like it's math is like dancing about architecture.)
More options
Context Copy link
I have blue eyes. They're by far my best feature. Blues, especially sky blues, will bring them out. Purple never will. That won't change no matter what the trends are. My light blue ocbd might be in or out of style, look stylish or look lame, but it will always emphasize my eyes.
Similarly, take a classic item, like the schott Perfecto double rider. The aesthetic of it is always the same, has always been the same since 1950. The thick leather, double breast, and structured tailoring creates added bulk while also emphasizing a v shaped silhouette. What that means has varied over time and place, from motorcycle riding wild man to gay fashion bottom to lame suburban dad trying to recapture a youth he lost before the bush administration. But the shoulders are the same.
I realize I didn't actually answer your question. My view is that certain aspects of visual aesthetics are universally hard coded*, certain colors interact with other colors in certain ways, lines drawn in certain ways create certain proportions. Color and cut and material will emphasize or de-emphasize certain physical features. What the colors or features emphasized mean is changing constantly. A slim silhouette or a baggy silhouette have both been perceived as young and hip and urban at different times; and fashionistas tend to backfill the meaning by talking about aesthetics as though they are universal.
*I'm leaving aside Other-Minds "Do you see the green that I see?" questions and defects in perception here, because that can take us way off track.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Black suits aren't that versatile, only really suitable for funerals, for very formal events you'll want a black tuxedo (not the same as a suit), you want a deep charcoal grey one as your daily driver.
Either grey or dark navy blue suit as a general purpose business suit. Up to personal taste. Though apparently there's a cultural element where like Southern europeans prefer lighter grey, and north Europeans and Anglos prefer dark blues but idk if this is true.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Fashion is mostly overlapping cycles of fads. You can't really express it in code. For late 2021 fashion, try asking ChatGPT for a formula.
The general rule is that a black suit is suitable for funerals and maybe black tie optional events. The natural progression is that you start with a navy blue or a dark grey suit, then get the other one. Then stop, unless you need more. The features you want in the first suit are:
100% wool (probably want this in all your suits)
worsted wool
notched lapels, medium width
flapped pockets
two buttons
jacket long enough to mostly cover your buttocks
pants of medium width, not slim, not sitting too low
This gives you a boring uniform of a suit, which is a good thing.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link