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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   32964 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 1, 2023

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DeSantis' visit to Israel isn't really surprising even from a statewide political perspective.

Of course none of this is surprising, it is 100% aligned with my mental model. It's still significant even if it isn't surprising.

I was recalling the wording of Florida State Representative Randy Fine:

Made a secret trip to JERUSALEM (!!!) with @RepMikeCaruso to deliver @GovRonDeSantis HB 269, the strongest antisemitism bill in the United States. To Florida’s Nazi thugs, I have news: attack Jews on their property and you’re going to prison. Never again means never again.

So the State Representative who participated in the signing of the bill characterized it as a "secret trip to Jerusalem". He was describing his trip to Jerusalem to deliver the bill as secret rather than Ron's trip, but in any case the "secrecy" of this stunt is established by the very Representative who described it as such.

I was recalling the wording of Florida State Representative Randy Fine:

No, you weren't. As evidenced by the tedious back and forth about your claim downthread, you just found this tweet after the fact.

So you think me saying "Secret trip to Jerusalem" with the (!) after was just a coincidence? TBF it was a screenshot I saw last week from someone who retweeted Laura Loomer. But that characterization stuck, which I absolutely maintain. I didn't remember where I saw that verbiage earlier today, but I found the screenshot again.

You can replace:

Ron DeSantis made a secret trip to Jerusalem (!) last week

With

Two Florida State Reps made a secret trip to JERUSALEM (!!!) last week to deliver to Ron DeSantis

And it doesn't change the meaning of my post. This was a secret political stunt by DeSantis intended to pander to Jewish interests with new a American hate speech law. Period.

Why lie

Our dear SS is our resident holocaust, ahem, "revisionist". Anything he says that even remotely touches the topics of Israel or Jews is to be read in this context. This isn't the first time he has been blatantly lying in this regard.

Neither the purpose nor destination (Jerusalem) were known as far as I can tell. There was speculation that the purpose was political rather than the deceptively stated purpose of the trip. Nobody knew DeSantis was going to show up in Jerusalem randomly to sign a new Florida hate speech law and give a keynote address at the Museum of Tolerance. That's "secret" in my book, you are welcome to split hairs if you want.

You say "split hairs," I say "moving goalposts." First it was a "secret trip," which you intentionally phrased as if De Santis were covertly slipping off to Israel to sign American legislation at the behest of his Jewish masters under cover of darkness. When multiple people pointed out to you that it was widely publicized and there was nothing secretive or unusual about his trip, now it's "Well, I didn't see a complete, detailed itinerary and schedule of activities, therefore it's 'secret' in my book."

Went to Israel, "randomly showed up in Jerusalem" - come on, man.

there was nothing secretive or unusual about his trip

Not sure what else to say, I think DeSantis signing a Florida hate speech law in Jerusalem is unusual. You are free to take the position that it's not unusual, but it's important anyway.

I'd be open to an argument that it's unusual for an American politician to sign a bill while traveling abroad (I don't actually know how unusual this is), and hell, I'd even be open to an argument, if you could make it, that there is something particularly significant about him signing this particular law in Israel, though your implied "Because Da Joos told him to" needs a lot more groundwork.

The problem is, you started with "secret trip to Israel" and are now backpedaling so obviously that it's hard to take any such argument from you as sincere or concerned with factuality.

I'd be open to an argument that it's unusual for an American politician to sign a bill while traveling abroad

There was a lot of talk about Obama's famous autopen he used to sign legislation while being out of DC. So it's not unprecedented. I remember this discussion because I never seen that device before and then learned its use goes back to Thomas Jefferson (Obama likely used a more modern version of it). Example: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2011/05/27/136724009/obamas-autopen-signing-of-patriot-act-raises-eyebrows-has-unlikely-ally

And of course the idea that Da Joos can't command their thrall De Santis to sign the bill by phone or any other remote communication, but must be hypnotizing him in person in Jerusalem is as hilarious as most crazy ideas this kind of folks spits out.

I'd be open to an argument that it's unusual for an American politician to sign a bill while traveling abroad

This just seems super disingenuous. This isn't just "an American politician signing a bill while traveling abroad", it's a Florida presidential hopeful signing a hate speech law in Jerusalem.

though your implied "Because Da Joos told him to" needs a lot more groundwork.

Ok, so what's your theory for why this happened? Are you just going to say the same thing but in different terms? He's trying to get support for his campaign.

As I said, I am open to the argument. You haven't made one. You just keep saying "Israel" like that's enough of an argument. Seriously, tell me that this is a first, or that no one has ever done this in any country but Israel, or anything else that would support anything beyond your unstated Dark Hinting. Is De Santis trying to curry favor with Jewish voters? Absolutely. There are, in fact, a lot of Jewish voters in Florida. No ZOG conspiracies are necessary to explain this.

Other than that one word "secret", can you just copy + paste the part of my post where you think I didn't substantiate it with an argument?

More comments

March 28, CNN: "DeSantis plans to travel to Jerusalem as tumult strains Netanyahu-Biden relationship". So, the destination was known.

Washington Free Beacon April21: "Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who is expected to run for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, is set to begin a trip abroad on Saturday taking him through Japan, South Korea, Israel and the United Kingdom." Note that that was before the bill passed, and that he visited several other places. So it is unlikely that the purpose was to sign the bill.

Yeah, that puzzled me, can any politician sign a bill while outside the country? I guess the answer is "no."

The answer is "yes", at lease since 2011. Example: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2011/05/27/136724009/obamas-autopen-signing-of-patriot-act-raises-eyebrows-has-unlikely-ally

TLDR: As long as the authorized politician directly gives his consent and his command to sign the bill, he can direct his subordinate to perform the physical act of affixing the signature without being present at the same place.

Huh, TIL.

Why wouldn't he be able to sign it while outside the country?

I mean, having a rule that bills have to be signed in a certain place is just asking to be coup'd

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