site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I’m cooking up a post about how the American left has historically consisted of two very distinct factions - Populists and Elitists/Futurists - and how a theoretical realignment of political tribes in this country might pit a coalition of working-class whites and Hispanics - the Populist coalition, headed by a Trump-like caudillo figure who is more favorable toward Latin American immigration than Trump was - against a white/Asian/Indian/Jewish urban Elitist coalition that has re-embraced old Progressive ideas such as eugenics.

The sort of labor-oriented, anti-elitist brand of leftism you see in this book hearkens back to the early-20th century, pre-Gramscian, non-Leninist socialist labor movement championed by guys like Fightin’ Bob LaFollette, Eugene Debs, and to some extent Huey Long. In the 21st-century context, that coalition remains uncomfortably welded with elements of the Elitist coalition, although Trump’s great triumph was peeling off a substantial portion of that element. When Bernie Sanders at long last succumbed to the political necessities of Democratic politics in 2020 and embraced the racial/gender policy preferences of the left-elitists within the party, I saw it as a particularly grievous stab-in-the-back of the populist faction that he’d always seen himself as a crusader for. (Whether or not a Brooklyn Jew and old-school Civil Rights activist can stake a legitimate claim to speak for that coalition is a complicated question, and one which I will grapple with in my post.)

A big factor in that transformation is that organized labor, and especially manufacturing unions, declined dramatically (due to deindustrialization mostly but also under attack from the right). The unions that have gained power like the SEIU have pretty different gender demographics then the old unions that used to dominate the Democratic Party.

Another huge difference between the 1632 series and modern leftist fiction is that 1632 is relentlessly optimistic. People get killed, stuff blows up, the bad guys make gains, but these are problems to be solved and they in fact WILL be solved, or at least put on a path to be solved. Our Heroes have the advantages, they WILL use them, and in doing so they will attract other competent good guys; the bad guys ultimately don't stand a chance.