site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

then does the fact that those genitals are made of marble instead of flesh make such an important difference that one ought not to object to the display of this statue where children can see it?

Yes, in the same way that there's a difference between a church hanging up Jesus on the crucifix outside vs. hanging up a human body on a crucifix, or even a gory imitation human body. The method of representation matters.

I’m not so sure that this analogy holds. For example, passion plays - dramatic presentations of Christ’s crucifixion, using real actors - have a long and rich history in the church. Sure, if a church fatally crucified a real man then the effect would be markedly different from the display of a crucifix statue, but it seems to me that there is little to no difference between the effect produced by the display of a crucifix status and the effect produced by the presentation of a flesh-and-blood re-enactment of the crucifixion.

it seems to me that there is little to no difference between the effect produced by the display of a crucifix status and the effect produced by the presentation of a flesh-and-blood re-enactment of the crucifixion.

Have you ever seen a passion play? I remember how I felt after watching the passion of the christ. Shellshocked. That thing was worse than an Eli Roth movie because it felt so much more real. As a piece of cinema it is a work of art, but I never want to see it again. That is not a feeling imparted by crucifix statues, if it was haunted houses would just have to recreate a Filipino grandma's living room to terrify people.

Yes, these things are culturally specific, but most people today would view a Jesus crucifix statue as less gory than a dramatic presentation of the crucifixion, and a more suitable sight for children randomly walking down the street.