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But I've never disagreed with this. I think if what you want is a fuck buddy, not a date or a "relationship," you should absolutely be honest about that, and it should be okay to express that.
That does not absolve you of any obligation to, using another dumpster fire of a cliche, "read the room." Just because you are looking for a fuck buddy, or you happen to think your cute female classmate would be a good one, does not mean that appropriate communication consists of telling whichever girl you're interested in that you'd like to fuck her. Part of communication is making some attempt to gauge interest, mutual attraction, and receptiveness.
Now, this guy might have made a good faith effort to do that and he just catastrophically misread the signals. Which is why I am not like the folks on reddit who believe he's a creepy predator who should feel ashamed of himself for wanting to fuck his classmate.
But I also think some embarrassment is just par for the course when you screw up like that.
Your Harry met Sally example, besides being based on a Hollywood movie where the characters are Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan, is also not how things universally were. In the past, a woman propositioned by her girlfriend's boyfriend certainly could be expected to take offense (and very likely tell her girlfriend!). This didn't happen to Harry because Harry is Billy Crystal and Sally is Meg Ryan and Hollywood says they're meant to end up together anyway. I do not think the social norms you are suggesting - "a woman asked by a casual acquaintance if she'd like to fuck just politely declines and never takes offense" - were ever actual social norms.
Unlike communication, which can help sometimes, this is legitimately a completely useless piece of advice and judgment. 'if she said no, you shouldn't have asked'. Certainty is not achievable. Apparently, uncertainty is wanted, so punishing error is downright immoral.
Sally's reaction jives with my own thought experiment about a gay friend, and lesbians and gays among themselves. It's certainly not inconceivable that a woman would react like that, as you imply.
The whole point of that movie was that Harry and Sally were always destined to be together, they just didn't realize it at first. So of course Sally doesn't blow up at a proposition that she was down deep secretly pleased by, as the audience well knows.
I guess we've reached our point of irreconcilable disagreement: you think it's appropriate to ask any woman you'd like to fuck if she wants to fuck, without risk of the slightest social consequences for a badly-targeted approach. I don't think social interactions, and especially trying to get laid, are or should come with such a safety guarantee, even for socially awkward men.
Her internal monologue doesn't matter. I demand objective standards in dating behaviours, not dependent on women's secret whims. Ok, to wrap this up and come full circle, it's freedom of speech, it should be free from consequences, he did nothing wrong. She and her defenders support a cruel, contradictory, costly and harmful interaction model. They are blinded by a pathological, exclusive empathy for the woman in any situation (look at the relationship subs), and seek status by shitting relentlessly on low status males.
Okay. So if I told you "Hi, I'd like to fuck you," that should be free from consequences, even public embarrassment on my part when you tell your buddies I tried to proposition you in the men's room?
(Purely hypothetical example, I assure you. I have no idea how fuckable you are, and also, I'm straight.)
I am not actually in favor of a society where casually approaching people for sex is the norm. Now if your objection is that it's "unfair" because women aren't supposed to be slut-shamed, maybe I'd agree, to a point.
who is embarassed by whom and why? sounds like a nothingburger all around.
Yeah, no homo too, I'm like Straight Times Infinity, bro.
It's telling that the only argument you'll allow is exclusively about one half the population.(edit: not valid, I get what you mean now. Yes that is unfair, and another bullet point on the list of contradictory things the current social order upholds)People want to have sex with each other. Disallowing verbal expression of the sentiment does not make them chaste.
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I don't think most people are arguing for "without risk of the slightest social consequences", merely that the social consequences should be proportional, both to the "offense" and to what consequences women face for similar missteps.
Okay. This guy got embarrassed and will have a hard time getting a date at that school because he painted a big "L" on himself. I don't think that's disproportionate. Being kicked out of school or winding up on a list of "predatory men" would be disproportionate.
I assume this means you are okay with slut-shaming women for dressing immodestly and being overly flirtatious? So long as they aren't kicked out of school or wind up on some official list somewhere?
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