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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34966 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

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This will be sort of speaking on the meta level on @Lepidus's comments, as I don't really have a response to this specific post. I've been in East Asia for a few months now (and not my first time visiting,) and I really love the people here. So kind, smart, organized, polite, I adore the aesthetics and so many aspects of the culture here. Being on public transit where people don't talk and just follow basic rules of etiquette is about three million times nicer than any ride on the bus or train in Europe let alone America. But I'm somewhat sympathetic to Lepidus's underlying point as well, though I don't think he's particularly good at rhetoric. What I'm specifically referring to is that I find the political and social structures of East Asia to be quite restrictive. I don't want to live under a regime that is treating me like I'm East Asian. I love visiting the area for the novelty and to experience something different from the West, but the lack of individual freedom here is hard to cope with as a relatively libertarian American person. There certainly are values that Chinese hold differently from the West and it isn't a waste of time to worry about that, given the geopolitical situation.

Agree that Lepidus's tone is combative and the posts are a bit incoherent but since no one seems to be taking his side I just thought I'd try to throw a bone out to maybe spark discussion in a different direction.

I've visited and worked a bit in China and Korea. They are nice to visit. The people are really nice to Western visitors. Korea is a beautiful country. China is dirty and polluted. I met my Chinese in-laws' children and young babies and they subjectively seemed as responsive and lively as white children. I don't know why that "Chinese babies are unresponsive" nonsense keeps coming up. It seemed wrong to my lying eyes.

I entirely agree that these countries are good to visit or work for a few weeks or months in, but I would not want to live there. Korean offices had way too much deference to managers coupled with way too much overwork and were completely thankless. Months of crunch time ending with only the top manager getting a large bonus and everyone else getting nothing. Like a reddit antiwork post but real.

Chinese work culture was actually better in terms of work life balance, but the pollution and general dirtiness is hard to take. And the sloppy half-assed attitude they have at work.

Meh - china is a big place. Pollution is a negative but not that bad honestly. I lived there for almost two decades tbk

Shanghai winter pollution was egregious. You blow your nose and it comes out with a grey-black tint. And out in the countryside they burned lots of grass and plants so it was really smokey. I cannot complain bitterly enough about the terrible air quality in winter in multiple Chinese cities.

But in summer the air was subjectively fine.

Yeah, but that's not really racial - you'd probably find medieval europe or rome significantly more restrictivre, and Chinese that come to America become as liberal as anyone else.

What specifically about east asian social/political structures did you find 'restrictive/lack of freedom/different values'? Like, specific experiences or things you saw, it's a better discussion-starter.

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