site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   3078 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for February 19, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2009-03-18-moderate-obesity-takes-years-life-expectancy

It appears that between a BMI of 30 and 45 obesity moves from a third to exactly as fatal as smoking. It seems intuitive to me that the non-fatal health risks probably scale with the fatal health risks. And it seems obvious to me from looking around that I'd rather be a smoker than obese in terms of social and physical downsides that are not health related (or smokers can wear normal clothes and fit into airline seats and get anesthetics).

So I don't know where you're seeing a separable consensus that nicotine will ruin your life "much" faster than obesity. It seems like, depending were you weight fatal vs non fatal tradeoffs, nicotine offers a better solution. So from a harm reduction perspective, we are as a society, ignoring nicotine as a weight loss drug.

Granting all of that is true...

So from a harm reduction perspective, we are as a society, ignoring nicotine as a weight loss drug.

That still isn't what Imaginary_Knowledge was claiming and what I was pushing back on. What you've said is basically summed up as "society is incorrectly valuing the costs of obesity and nicotine". Fine. But what Imaginary_Knowledge said was that people prefer to be fat. That's not what is going on here, at all. They think that nicotine (and cocaine) are going to hurt them more, but that's not the same thing as some glib take of "well I guess people prefer to be fat" and it was disingenuous for him to act like they are the same.

I don't find it disingenuous, just a different interpretation of people vs society/establishment/cathedral/whatever. If you want to say that people themselves have been misinformed or otherwise lack sufficient agency to make that choice individually, it still reflects a society that chooses to value smoking and obesity in the ways it does. We, as a society from media to government to medical orgs, could choose to value things differently.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats