site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 16, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

To be fair, every one of the scammers who targets my elderly dad is either indian or mexican, so it wouldn't swing the balance that far back. Whenever they call while I'm over I get to learn some fantastic retro racial slurs from the 60s.

But, like, how many people scammed out of a hundred bucks is worth one 7-11 clerk executed in cold blood even after giving up the cash, or being lit on fire with gasoline or having bleach poured down her throat?

A lot of the anger at the media for not covering this stuff isn't the scale so much as the sheer hideous and callous evil of it, which they ignore to chase made up stories about white frat bros lighting a chick's hijab on fire.

The financial crimes equivalent would be the whole media totally ignoring Bernie Madoff in favor of writing a thousand pieces about some white bartender who was rumored to have under-reported his tips to the IRS, which I think people would get equally upset about.

Actuary tables put the (economic) value of a life at somewhere under $10 million: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#United_States

Actuary tables

(economic) value

Note that the federal govt.'s figure of ten million dollars is based on revealed-preference studies that estimate how much money the average person theoretically is willing to spend in order to save his own life, not on economic studies that estimate the present value of an average person's expected future earnings (or net tax revenue).

But, like, how many people scammed out of a hundred bucks is worth one 7-11 clerk executed in cold blood even after giving away all the cash, or being lit on fire with gasoline or having bleach poured down her throat?

That leads to the question is many people scammed for small amounts is equal to one person killed in cold blood in terms of loss of quality of life and externalities. But this is not an apples to apples comparison. The serial scammer would not be listed under homicide stats but somewhere else. If you just limit it to homicides or assault, then Sailer is right.