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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   29720 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

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To echo what I said to @pointsandcorsi, I an amused by the implication that the NYT has credibility to assail.

I think it illustrates how different our worlds are, you're always here acting like "Epstien didn't kill himself" and "the NYT are a bunch of partisan hacks" are whacky, out-there, Alex Jones-tier takes when in my experience they are the popular consensus. I know you live in Manhattan but every time you make one of these comments I find myself biting back the urge to ask if you've actually met anyone who isn't a registered democrat or under the age of 70?

The NYT has credibility because they are among the definers of credibility. The truth doesn't matter; if you go against the NYT you're automatically wrong, among anyone who counts. Think of it like the BATF and machine guns. Sure, you know that a shoelace isn't a machine gun and I know a shoelace isn't a machine gun, but if the BATF says a shoelace is a machine gun it is, and anyone with a shoelace is liable for prosecution. And the prosecutors will prosecute and the judge will go along and so will the higher courts and no amount of pointing out that it's a shoelace will save you from jail time. And to add insult to injury, if and when all this commences, all those law-n-order conservatives who agreed that indeed a shoelace was not a machine gun will say "Well, what did you expect? You knew a shoelace was a machine gun, BATF said so." They don't actually believe a shoelace is a machine gun, but they believe in institutions and the institutions said it was.

Same with the NYT. What they say is truth will be taken as truth, by anyone who matters. Even if it's patently ridiculous.

And the prosecutors will prosecute and the judge will go along and so will the higher courts and no amount of pointing out that it's a shoelace will save you from jail time. And to add insult to injury, if and when all this commences, all those law-n-order conservatives who agreed that indeed a shoelace was not a machine gun will say "Well, what did you expect? You knew a shoelace was a machine gun, BATF said so."

Somehow I suspect that it is hyperbole and not what you actually believe, but I am not really sure.

use a shoelace to more effectively bump-fire a semi-auto rifle

note that it is distinct "shoelace is machine gun"

where pulling a trigger once results in multiple rounds being fired is technically making a "machine gun"

"triggering multiple guns at once in weird way counts as machine gun" is far more defensible and reasonable than "shoelace is machine gun"

(and yes, trying to legislate definition of things where border is fluid and with adverse groups will result in a lot of stupid shit, but less stupid than "shoelace is machine gun")

And you could almost imagine someone getting in trouble for having in their possession a semi-auto gun and a loose shoelace, because they could be readily assembled into a machinegun.

OK, that parts makes sense and I can easily imagine someone interpreting maximally evilly.

Why? He doesn't seem to be saying anything unreasonable.

Maybe should be more pessimistic, but I would bet that declaring shoelace to be machine gun would not pass. Declaring nonmachine gun as a machine gun? Likely.

Declaring shoelace as a machine gun? Would not reach court or would be squashed there.

What you don't realized but Hlynka does, is the shoelace thing isn't something I pulled out of my butt; it's a meme based on an actual BATF ruling. As for courts, what you're missing is the point here -- deference. What BATF says goes, even if it's crazy sauce. And one problem with conservatism is they accept the legitimacy of the institutions even when they are captured by their enemies. So there's no help there.

the shoelace thing isn't something I pulled out of my butt

I am definitely unaware

it's a meme based on an actual BATF ruling

What was the actual ruling? Have they ruled that actual shoelace was a machine gun?

https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/

They later changed their mind. But they've made other rulings which stretch the law (though not as much).

OK, that is amazing and hilarious and absurd and actually case of "they ruled that actual shoelace was a machine gun".

I am amazed and worried at that someone managed to write and send this reply.

I was honestly unaware of this, thanks for making me aware of this.

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