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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31957 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 5, 2022

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You seem to be arguing that a law which seeks to prevent someone from depriving others of the right to vote in federal elections is somehow no more proper than is a law which limits growing crops for your own consumption, which is a claim whose legitimacy is less than self-evident. Regardless, whether a law is or is not sound policy is irrelevant to whether a law enforcement agency has a "valid role" in enforcing that law. OP's claim to the contrary was, to quote Justice Thomas in another context, "uncommonly silly."

No, you misunderstood. I'm saying that since growing your own crops, for on your own farm, strictly for your own private consumption is interstate commerce, according to you, telling someone an obvious joke while on your farm is also "using an avenue of interstate commerce to commit fraud" and "conspiring to deprive citizens of the right to vote".

You don't understand the relevant legal issue. "Engaging in interstate commerce" is not the same as "using an avenue of interstate commerce"; using an avenue of interstate commerce is a subset of the former. So, ehether or not I am "engaging in interstate commerce" when I grow food for my own consumption has no bearing on whether I am using an avenue of interstate commerce when I use the mail, or make an interstate phone call, or email someone in another state.

How, pray tell, would you engage in interstate commerce without using an avenue for it?

I did not say that you could: " using an avenue of interstate commerce is a subset of the former."

Well then, if growing your own crops, for on your own farm, strictly for your own private consumption is interstate commerce, then somewhere during those activities you must be using an avenue for interstate commerce, which means that if during that time you tell someone an obvious joke, you are "using an avenue of interstate commerce to commit fraud" and "conspiring to deprive citizens of the right to vote".

No, the whole point of that case is that the actions of the farmer in question could be regulated despite him not using an avenue of interstate commerce or interacting in any way with anyone out of state. That is the entire reason that it is a controversial decision.

It was my understanding that the argument was about indirect, ripple effects affecting interstate commerce. Growing your own wheat for personal use means you're not buying it, which reduces total demand, which affects prices, which crosses state lines.

The parallel, I guess, would be a private joke that might be retold and retold in such a way that the meme crosses a state line.

Scary, these lawyerly end-runs around the Constitution. Jack’s Twitter banned the Babylon Bee, curtailing satire under the premise people were retweeting their articles as serious info; the same might happen federally. I can predict the same reasoning used as an attempt to curtail state gun laws so legal guns aren’t available to be brought to Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles.

No, the reason the decision is controversial, is that it violates laws of logic and common sense. If you cannot engage in interstate commerce without using an avenue for interstate commerce, that means he was not engaging in interstate commerce.

Do you not understand that you are agreeing with what I just said?

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