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ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   45536 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

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Just in: Chileans reject new progressive Constitution. An interesting chapter in the history of Latin American economic and political development. (The country's progress over the last few decades makes it one of the region's real success stories.) For my part, I suspect the voters made a smart call here, but are there Motters closer to the issue with actual insights? What will come next?

We had a pretty insightful writeup: https://rdrama.net/post/100860/notes-from-the-third-world-chile

So is this the end, or do they just keep holding votes until they get the answer they want?

Even outside of the cultural issues this would destroy their mining industry on the environmental parts alone and we're not exactly living in booming times of plenty at the moment.

After the constitutional referendum in 2020, Chileans elected more than 150 people to write the new system of rules. Independents won more than half the seats, including lawyers, academics, journalists, two actors, a dentist, a mechanic, a chess master and a bevy of left-wing activists, including one who became famous for protesting in a Pikachu costume. Seventeen seats went to Indigenous people.

bruhhhhhhhhhh

imagine robespeirre going to work with a clown nose

how do you get elected and

not have real clothes to wear

this is awesome

the highly publicized behavior of some of the convention’s members that might have repelled Chileans even more. One constitution member was revealed to be faking a cancer diagnosis he had used in his election campaign. Another took a shower with his camera on during a remote vote.

lmaoooooooooo

  • -47

This is fundamentally not the kind of post we're looking for. I recommend reading over the rules and possibly lurking a lot also.

no worries man :) ill do that

From what I can tell it is so undeniably woke in that it effectively sets up a reverse caste system, enshrined into the law.

And since South America lacks the advanced institutions of the cathedral to implement this outside of the viewpoint of the majority, the Chileans have to write it into constitutional law - and exposed to the light of democracy, it withers and dies like a vampire.

And since South America lacks the advanced institutions of the cathedral to implement this outside of the viewpoint of the majority

The viewpoint of the majority is the reason a new constitution is being tried in the first place given that they voted to drop the old one in 2020. Without knowing more details it's hard to say whether it failed because the people don't like it at all or just because they don't like some parts of it.

There was an article in the constitution that had a provision for a separate system (justice, medical, schooling) for the Mapuche people - which, at best, would be Jim Crow. At worst, it would be the effective division of the country on ethnic grounds.

And that's not even the worst of it, really. The whole thing reads like a wish list of the globalist progressive left, and what's even worse is that it's 178 pages long with 378 articles. Such a byzantine constitution would be contested at every turn, and give way too much pressure on the weak legal institutions to adjudicate well... everything. The Economist does a pretty [good] (https://archive.ph/wbzDZ) write up on it.

There was an article in the constitution that had a provision for a separate system (justice, medical, schooling) for the Mapuche people - which, at best, would be Jim Crow. At worst, it would be the effective division of the country on ethnic grounds.

How different is it to tribal sovereignty in the United States?

She is probably talking about a few things:

First of all there seems to be an initiative for gender parity among various governing institutions.

Women made up one-half of the assembly that created the proposed constitution—a world record—and the charter stipulates that all public institutions have gender parity. In a first for Chile, it also lays the grounds for a national public healthcare system and makes the government responsible for adapting to and mitigating the effects of climate change. (Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/08/chile-new-constitution-rewrite-boric-protests-pinochet-dictatorship-referendum/ )

Second, there seems to be a a provision that gives the Chilean indigenous something like U.S. style reservations where they have their own semi-sovereign land.

On Sunday, Chileans will vote on a new constitution that, if approved, would enshrine some of the most extensive rights for Indigenous people anywhere in the world, according to experts. If the text is approved, more than two million Indigenous Chileans, 80 percent of whom are Mapuche, would be able to govern their own territories, have their own courts and be recognized as distinct nations within Chile, a nation of 19 million people. ( Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/02/world/americas/chile-constitution-vote-indigenous.html )

Continued on in the NYT article:

The convention that was elected last year to write Chile’s new constitution was heralded as one of the most inclusive political bodies anywhere. It had gender parity and 17 of its 155 seats were reserved for Indigenous representatives. Its first president was Elisa Loncón, a Mapuche linguist who wore traditional dress to the plenary sessions and often greeted other convention members in Mapudungun, the Mapuche language.

The Indigenous representatives left their mark on the draft text. The first article of the new constitution would declare Chile a “plurinational” state, meaning that multiple nations would be recognized within Chile’s borders.

It would enshrine quotas for Indigenous people in all elected bodies, including at the national, regional and municipal levels. Indigenous people would have their own autonomous territories and gain protection over their lands and the natural resources on them. Most controversially, a parallel Indigenous justice system would rule in cases that do not affect fundamental rights or international treaties signed by Chile.

I don't quite see why the above poster is calling this a reverse caste system. It seems like straightforward affirmative action and some tribal sovereignty to be honest.

It is my position that those policies create a caste system in the more affluent West as well - nakedly open racial preference in service of social justice is just as abhorrent as it is in the service of the majority, like in Malaysia. Either way, you're creating distorted incentives that are rife for corruption and nepotism.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/whats-chiles-proposed-new-constitution-2022-07-29/

  • State bodies and public companies, among other entities, must have gender parity.

  • The state must take measures to eradicate and punish gender violence.

  • The proposal says every person is entitled to sexual and reproductive rights, including the voluntary interruption of pregnancy, but leaves specifics regarding abortion up to future laws. Abortion in Chile is currently legal only in cases that involve rape, unviable pregnancies or when the mother's life is in danger.

  • The state must "respect, promote, protect and guarantee" self-determination, collective and individual rights, and participation of indigenous groups.

  • The text guarantees "the right of indigenous peoples and nations to their lands, territories and resources", reserves seats in representative bodies and establishes that groups must be consulted in matters that affect their rights.

  • The new constitution would establish parallel justice systems for indigenous groups, but the country's supreme court will still have the final say.

  • 17 seats reserved for members of Chile’s two million strong Indigenous population

  • enforces Indigenous representation at all levels of government, as well as gender parity in government and in both public and public-private enterprises

  • parallel justice system for indigenous groups

https://www.vox.com/2022/9/4/23336809/chile-new-constitution-boric

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