site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 5, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

106
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm sure that they pandered to me in some way. But nothing so crass as "you're a man, so you kick ass, unlike those dumb women". That people can read that shit and genuinely like it baffles me. I used to use the hugo awards to find sci fi worth reading, but now I just don't read it much. Or I read old shit.

That might actually be an enjoyable read. Like a true male power fantasy revved up to 100, just for fun. What books count? Closest I can think of is James Bond and Poldark.

Not a book, but the anime series Gurren Lagann. It's like someone said "Hey, what if we made media that actually uses 'the male gaze' and phallic symbolism and 'toxic masculinity' and all that other bullshit that feminists falsely accuse other media of?" And it turns out the result is amazing mecha battles where literal galaxies are being chucked around.

Princess of Mars?

Gor.

Well, maybe for the 40% of men who are into BDSM.

Competence porn is probably a bigger offender.

Well, maybe for the 40% of men who are into BDSM.

I feel like BDSM might cover 20% of men at best where as competence porn must cover 3 quarters at a minimum

If one were determined to explore this particular road, one possible trail begins with the phrase, "oh, John Ringo, no!" It will take you far, far past James Bond, at least.

Other paths running through the LitRPG genre and similar descendents of the old pulps likewise might be fruitful.

You'd probably need to go to Asia for a real male power fantasy. The harem must grow larger!

Tai-Pan and the Noble House probably count. But they are still not actively misogynistic.