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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   Edited 2yr ago   34789 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 14, 2022

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Why not?

No, seriously, what's so important about Twitter/FB that the POTUS needs to be on it? It exists to make people feel more "in the loop." For normies that's mostly an illusion. For the most powerful man on Earth, it's definitely an illusion, plus some level of ego trip. Doesn't strike me as worth pursuing.

It’s the town square. You can’t have major political figures being banned from walking down Main Street and talking to voters.

A court has ruled that POTUS cannot block journalists from his private account, so if access to POTUS' tweets is some sort of fundamental right, I don't see why that right should not apply to all private citizens.

No, the court ruled that because Trump used his Twitter account to conduct government business, and because it was open to general discourse by the public, it was a designated public forum. The court said:

the First Amendment does not permit a public official who utilizes a social media account for all manner of official purposes to exclude persons from an otherwise-open online dialogue because they expressed views with which the official disagrees

Since Trump is no longer a govt official, his account is no longer a designated public forum, even if he uses it for his campaign. Campbell v. Reisch, 986 F. 3d 822 (8th Cir. 2021).

If you're going to say "no" you probably should say something that contradicts me. When Trump was banned he was still POTUS, and we are discussing a scenario when he's POTUS again.

We are talking about whether he should be restored now, are we not?

And, btw, your premise ("if access to POTUS' tweets is some sort of fundamental right") is completely wrong; the constitutional question is not about access to tweets; it is whether a govt social media account can engage in viewpoint discrimination. The case was about the right to speak, not about the right to access information.

We are talking about whether he should be restored now, are we not?

Yeah, and a question asked in this comment chain was: "No, seriously, what's so important about Twitter/FB that the POTUS needs to be on it?". So we are discussing a scenario where he's the POTUS, right?

it is whether a govt social media account can engage in viewpoint discrimination. The case was about the right to speak

But it wasn't a government social media account, and no one's right to speak was limited. Even if we decide that both of those things are true just because the court said so, that just means Twitter is limiting the right to speak of all Twitter users.

But it wasn't a government social media account ... and no one's right to speak was limited

Except that the court held that indeed it was, for First Amendment purposes, and that indeed they were, under very longstanding principles of First Amendment law.

that just means Twitter is limiting the right to speak of all Twitter users.

You have your facts wrong. The issue was Trump blocking people, not Twitter. Note that in court, Trump did NOT argue that Twitter was blocking anyone, but that he was, but that he was doing so as a private person. Alternatively, he argued that doing so was "government speech" -- a terrible argument, but nevertheless a refutation of the claim that Twitter was the one doing the blocking.

Except that the court held that indeed it was, for First Amendment purposes, and that indeed they were, under very longstanding principles of First Amendment law.

I don't believe that a judge saying something automatically makes it true.

You have your facts wrong.

No I don't. I agree with the facts as you stated them.

The issue was Trump blocking people, not Twitter. Note that in court, Trump did NOT argue that Twitter was blocking anyone, but that he was, but that he was doing so as a private person.

So just as a hypothetical, if Trump asked Twitter to block that journalist from responding to him, and Twitter obliged, that would have been fine, according to you?

I don't believe that a judge saying something automatically makes it true

Perhaps not, but when a judge reaches a conclusion by applying well-established law to uncontroverted facts, it is incumbent upon those who claim that the judge has erred to explain why, not simply to say "in my untutored opinion, it is wrong."

So just as a hypothetical, if Trump asked Twitter to block that journalist from responding to him, and Twitter obliged, that would have been fine, according to you?

No, because under even more well-established law, that sort of joint action would probably constitute state action and hence bring Twitter's action under the ambit of the First Amendment.

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