Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 138
- 1
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I only really have two pieces of advice, from the man's POV, based on my own marriage and the marriages of the other men I know.
Thing number one is the constant battle against their wive's neuroticism. Iliza Shlesinger has this great bit about how driven she (and by the applause the got the women in her audience as well) is by neuroticism. Just the complete inability to sit still, and instead constantly fuck with thing and fuck with things and fuck with things. And only at the end of the day when she's so exhausted she can't possibly do anything at all, she gets 5 minutes of peace from her own brain before the oblivion of sleep overtakes her.
This is not a problem the typical man contends with. Your mileage may vary.
It's an older special she did this in, and in the context of the bit she's single. In the context of being married, myself and every man I know deals with their wife expecting them to do their neuroticism for them, because they are so tired of doing their own neuroticism all day. As a concrete example, I might call the doctor to set up an appointment for my daughter, and then write it on the calendar. My wife will get anxious that the calendar is wrong and want me to call the doctor's office to confirm that I wrote it down correctly. This excessive neuroticism is frustrating to me, and she refuses to make the call herself because she doesn't feel like it, but she can't act right until I do her neuroticism for her.
Side note for the husbands, never, ever say "Fine, I'll do your neuroticism for you". That was a mistake.
It has not helped that therapy speak has been popularized around these issues such that men are utilizing "weaponize incompetence" when they don't perform task to their wive's neurotic standards. It also has not helped that counselling services largely treat a wife's neuroticism as the highest possible priority in a relationship, and don't assess the reasonableness of it what so ever.
The second plague on husbands has been the popularization of "love languages". Suddenly every wife has decided that "acts of service" are her love language, which means her husband has to do everything she ask or he's not loving her properly. It's been one of the most effective mind viruses of entitlement I've ever seen, and it's swept through every marriage I'm aware of. Seems to have largely run it's course, but it was a thing about a year ago, and every man was run down and miserable under the relentless entitled demands for a solid 3-6 months before things came to a boil. Don't do that.
Why do you know my wife so well?
Anyways, I have grown thoroughly tired of the neuroticism, the entitlement and the learned helplessness. I have, for all practical purposes, exiled my wife to her parents' house during the work week because I didn't want to deal with her shit while also working (or failing to work, as that went with work-from-home). When she complains of some ache or ailment, I straight-up tell her that I don't care, don't want to hear about it, and will ignore it, and that it is hers to deal with. When she asks for acts of service, I do them if they're just harmless bits of luxury (make her a cup of tea, bring her high-quality ingredients to cook with instead of the cheap stuff, etc.) or just tell her to do it herself or else it won't be done if I genuinely don't want to do it, disagree with it or consider it her responsibility (drive out on an extra shopping trip because she wants a piece of cake, remove the trash from her room because she can't be assed to do it herself, make her calls for her, drive her to routine appointments that she could take the bus to). On weekends I no longer try to plan activities with her that invariably fall through because of her inability to commit to a plan and see it through; I straight-up skip the foreplay and assume that she will spend the entire weekend lying in bed and staring at her phone and probably cooking a meal at the small price of turning the kitchen into a blasted wasteland. Instead I plan the weekend around acitivities with our daughter, and ignore all my wife's inputs that goes along the lines of "she's too sick"/"don't be gone too long"/"that's dangerous". If the wife wants to come along, I tell her to stay at home because it's time to play and explore and have tiny adventures, not to complain that the sunlight / social anxiety is killing you and that the outdoors does not agree with your screen addiction and to try and derail the trip so it takes the shortest route to the nearest eatery and stops there. When now she tries to escalate her hypochondria and demands attention à la "I fear I'm dying!", I tell her to get it over with or call an ambulance because I'm not going to spend another night at the hospital just for her to be told she needs to exercise more and worry less. When she again fails to get our daughter to Kindergarten, I tell her to stop it with the excuses and do her damn job or else stop assuming responsibilities only to fail to carry them out. When I go to work, or to sleep, or outside with our daughter, or just don't feel like it, then I switch off my phone and let her ride out her panic attacks on her own. We considered moving closer to town so that she can take the bus and needn't get her driver's license, but I called it off when she refused to commit to actually taking that bus instead of being chauffeured around. When my wife says something, I refuse to believe it and tell her so, unless it either comes with convincing evidence or aligns with my perception, because her perception and thinking are dominated by fears and wishes and there is rarely an attempt to align on any shared "objective" reality.
Yes, I have gone full chauvinist. Straight-up "being a stay-at-home-mom is an important job and I will fire you if you don't do it". "You can be a feminist when you pull your own weight.". "Going to therapy is not a contribution to the family unless it actually improves something.". "Are you losing a sizable amount of blood? Is a bone broken? Can you still look at your phone? Then you're not dying and I don't care.". "Your appointments are yours to keep, don't expect me to make time for them.". "Yes I only work 40h a week and you are a housewife and mom 24/5. You work more hours than me. It's still an arrangement in your favor, because I would switch and you would not."
And so she divorced me and sued me and now I am a crying wreck, a shell of a man, misled by misogynist propaganda into playing by outmoded roles, tripped up by toxic social constructs, hated by my daughter...
Just kidding. We get along a lot better. The marriage may still fall apart in the long run, but while she will not outright admit it, I think she's actually a little glad to be forced to actually live up to at least the bare minimum of her responsibilities instead of just sliding ever-deeper into the patterns outlined in your post, and establishing at least the rudiments of a routine has been good for our daughter too, I think. Yes.jpg chad is actually a better role model than all the psychologists and bloggers and instagram content creators in the world.
The worst thing I ever did, by far and with no contest whatsoever, was to spend several years taking all that neuroticism seriously and doing it for her.
Not married and not planning to do so at the moment, but I have to enthusiastically third both your and WhiningCoil's sentiments despite not being a member of the married men club: No is the only correct response to this kind of ridiculous female neuroticism when it emerges. If you do not do this half of your life will be spent managing it, trying to work around it, attempting to placate it, and it is never over.
I have female family members like this, and while thankfully (for me) husbands/boyfriends are the first port of call for every issue, when there isn't one they sometimes fall back on virtually any stable male relative that's around to help manage it for them. I've had to deal with low levels of this in multiple points in my life, and I know guys who have succumbed to it in their relationships, and it's like every Victorian henpecked husband trope magnified by ten. It is not a good situation to find oneself in.
More options
Context Copy link
Do you love her or just do it for your daughter?
Yes and yes. I probably would have given up on the whole mess a while ago if it weren't for our daughter, but it's not like my wife, for all that I complain about her (and I do so with good reason), is entirely without merit.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Sounds like it already has bro.
By normal standards I suppose so, but we are stubborn people.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
That was a surprisingly uplifting read. Nobody's perfect, but my wife is not like yours or WC's. She's only slightly neurotic and doesn't cripple herself with needless worries. Time to go hug her.
Had a kid yet? It gets approximately 2.5 times worse after you have a kid.
interesting, I would say our marriage improved across the board by about 2.5 times after having a kid (if not more).
I mean, mine did too, but not along the neuroticism axis.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yep, he turns 11 next week.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Not the reaction I expected, but I'm glad for you.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Dang your first part describes my wife so perfectly well.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link