site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 7, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

But this is the whole anti-racist vs not racist thing. If we live in a free society (I know, big if, but that's the claim) you do not get to police the insides of people's heads. You do not get to demand everyone signs up to your ideology, the most you can demand is that anyone who doesn't agree with you shut up about it (because your ideology currently reigns in 'polite society').

This girl straight up said the word that can't be said, so I understand 'polite society' is going to throw the book at her. But if we are throwing the book at her because slurring a word over and over again to upset someone is proof she is racist in her heart - if we are going to start policing people's hearts - then there is no hope for society and its time to get out the grey hoodie and sunglasses.

I'm not really arguing punishment here, I agree wholeheartedly that hate crime and hate speech laws are total violations of basic enlightenment principles. We should punish actions not motivations.

I just found the arguments in favor of the girl to be very narcissist's prayer: the same people arguing she wasn't racist were also arguing that she shouldn't be expelled if she was.

Sorry, I didn't mean to direct my post at you, I meant the royal you but I should have realised how it would look. This whole thing is just so frustrating. There is an element of the narcissist's prayer there, but I do think it's because racial politics has become totalitarian in its true sense - nothing outside of racial politics. They're two separate positions, but if one is on the anti racist side one can't accept either of them, leaving the not racist side full of people who believe in both, or people willing to align them.