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cjet79  2mo ago (text post)   Edited 2mo ago   1514 thread views

Rule Change Discussion: AI produced content

There has been some recent usage of AI that has garnered a lot of controversy

There were multiple different highlighted moderator responses where we weighed in with different opinions

The mods have been discussing this in our internal chat. We've landed on some shared ideas, but there are also some differences left to iron out. We'd like to open up the discussion to everyone to make sure we are in line with general sentiments. Please keep this discussion civil.

Some shared thoughts among the mods:

  1. No retroactive punishments. The users linked above that used AI will not have any form of mod sanctions. We didn't have a rule, so they didn't break it. And I thought in all cases it was good that they were honest and up front about the AI usage. Do not personally attack them, follow the normal rules of courtesy.
  2. AI generated content should be labelled as such.
  3. The user posting AI generated content is responsible for that content.
  4. AI generated content seems ripe for different types of abuse and we are likely to be overly sensitive to such abuses.

The areas of disagreement among the mods:

  1. How AI generated content can be displayed. (off site links only, or quoted just like any other speaker)
  2. What AI usage implies for the conversation.
  3. Whether a specific rule change is needed to make our new understanding clear.

Edit 1 Another point of general agreement among the mods was that talking about AI is fine. There would be no sort of topic ban of any kind. This rule discussion is more about how AI is used on themotte.

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I'd be the person you're looking for.

I think AI is a useful tool, and has some utility in discourse, the most pertinent example that comes to mind being fact-checking lengthy comments (though I still expect people to read them).

I'm fine with short excerpts being quoted. I am on the fence for anything longer, and entirely AI generated commenting or posting without human addition is beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.

My stance is that AI use is presumed to be low effort by default, the onus is on the user to put their own time and effort into vetting and fact checking it, and only quoting from it when necessary. I ask that longer pieces of prose be linked off-site, pastebin would be a good option.

While I can tolerate people using AI to engage with me, I can clearly see, like the other mods, that it's a contentious topic, and it annoys people reflexively, with some immediately using AI back as a gotcha, or refusing to engage with the text on its own merits. I'm not going to go "am I out of touch, no it's the users who are wrong" here, the Motte relies on consensus both in its moderation team, and in its user base. If people who would otherwise be happy and productive users check out or disengage, then I am happy to have draconian restrictions for the sake of maintaining the status quo.

People come here to talk to humans. They perceive AI text to be a failure in that regard (even I at least want a human in the loop, or I'd talk to Claude). If this requires AI to be discouraged, that's fine. I'm for it, though I would be slightly unhappy with a categorical ban. If that's the way things turn out, this not a hill I care to die on, especially when some users clearly would be happy to take advantage of our forbearance.

the onus is on the user to put their own time and effort into vetting and fact checking it

i am concerned that in practice it's going to fall heavily onto other users and the mods, rather than OP.

i think we can have ~all the ai you actually want with a policy of "no ai, except for short things where you used it so well/minimally that we can't tell and it's more like a spell checker than outsourcing"

I assume you want to use the caveats that it can be used for research purposes or thinking through things, just not copy-pasting text?

If you mean behind the scenes, sure*. If you mean "and then quote its facts/figures," no. I consider "AI says $STATISTIC" to be at most twice as accurate and at least twice as irritating as "my ballpark guess is", while being significantly dishonest. It's just forcing others to do your work for you.

*: Even researching is on shaky ground. "Question -> AI -> paraphrase answer" is marginally better than piping AI into a textbox. "Question -> AI -> check original sources -> synthesize your own argument" can be done well. I personally don't find it more useful than "Question -> search results -> check original sources if those weren't already -> synthesize your own argument", but concede that I am a luddite. (muh vimmmmm)

I agree with you here. There's an unfortunate amount of inherent haziness in trying to adjudicate using the Motte's rules, and the effort requirements are quite often the most litigated.

If someone is using an AI in a more discreet manner, while I can't I outright approve of them doing so, if I can't prove it, well...

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