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naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   4482 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 30, 2022

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

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This is really one of those things that makes me wonder a bit about the concept of IQ. Like, IQ tests undoubtedly to some degree measure intelligence, but also some degree the willingness to cooperate, do what you're asked to do, be social (ie. obey the purpose of the test) etc.; both of these then probably have something to do with one's ability to do well in modern working world, stay out of trouble with law etc. but are still similar concepts.

This realization came to me when talking about "dog intelligence", a concept - it seems to me - to at least in your normal vulgar parlance be mostly related to how well the dogs obey humans when humans order them to do things.

If you have subjects who are not cooperative for sugar blood tests, and eat a lot before blood sample is taken, is it a problem of blood tests?

I can think IQ tests duration is limited to 30-60 minutes so willingness to cooperate has little effect (for most individuals) even if it makes measurement of intellect per se less precise.

Note for some important things willingness to cooperate matters more than intelligence! Just there isn't a good method to measure it, and it's much more prone to change than intelligence.

Re dogs: I'm actually going to disagree about the dogs, because have you ever met a smart breed of dog that belonged to an owner that didn't train it or stimulate it enough? They turn into nightmare criminals. A friend of a friend has this border collie that she never trained right, it'll do things like chew on a doorknob to get into the house from the garage, then methodically poop in every room in the house. Like a determined goal oriented criminal.

Maybe this metaphor is going in a different direction 😂

I have to admit I've never owned a dog myself, I'm just going by how people generally seem to talk about dog intelligence.

I think you’re right, most of the dog intelligence lists you’ll find are based off of trainability and willingness to cooperate with humans. Which makes sense, since that’s the main reason someone would want to know how smart a dog breed is. For instance, Beagles are usually ranked near the bottom of intelligence lists. I have a beagle: she is very clever, but stubborn as a mule and extremely focused on food. Training her was difficult because unless you had food, she usually wouldn’t cooperate. Once you were holding food, she’d “remember” how to roll over, sit, whatever. Stupid? Not at all. Independent and focused on “what’s in it for me?” Very much so.

A large amount of dog owners talk in such matter, but it isn't unclear if it's plurality or majority. And I think that people who have such vulgar "dog intelligence" concept deny utility of IQ tests.

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