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PaperclipPerfector  2d ago (text post)   1237 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for January 15, 2025

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

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How safe is HGH? What's the highest possible safe dose? Is there a highest possible safe dose? Will a high dose do anything (thicken bones like your feet, hands, wrists, ankles, vertebrae) that a low dose won't? I'm actually trying to thicken my ankles and wrists to see if thicker bones allow for a larger tendon CSA which allows me to do more in the gym without overuse pain, because my growth was stunted. It seems like acromegaly patients do get significant thickening of the bones I care about, however, do you need a mega-dose to achieve that thickening or not?

If you're looking to have it:

thicken bones like your feet, hands, wrists, ankles, vertebrae

You're basically into acromegaly territory, and I don't think that's a very good idea, unless your lover is into the Neanderthal look.

I doubt there's much concrete evidence out there, but I found this:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2657499/#:~:text=It%20can%20be%20argued%20that,%2C%20menstrual%20irregularities%2C%20and%20impotence.

There are few controlled studies on the effectiveness of GH on the performance of top level athletes. In general these studies have been performed with supraphysiological dosages but not with the large amounts claimed to be effective, for instance, by bodybuilders. The results of most of these controlled studies are generally less impressive than the claims of those who misuse the substance. A study of volunteers under heavy resistance training found decrease of free fatty mass but no difference in the muscle strength.23 With weight lifters, it has been shown that short term GH treatment does not increase muscle protein synthesis more than placebo24 or other factors such as maximal voluntary strength (biceps or quadriceps).25

The long term risks of hGH use are not well known since epidemiological data regarding this type of treatment in healthy sportsmen are unavailable. Acromegaly, which results from a pathological increase in endogenous production of GH, is often cited as one of the major risks associated with excessive use of hGH. The major symptoms are swelling of the hands and feet, coarsened facial appearance, dentition problems, arthralgias, fluid retention, and excessive sweating. Acromegalic patients have an increased risk for diabetes mellitus and hypertension that can lead to premature mortality from cardiovascular diseases.26 It can be argued that long term hGH doping with high dosages will probably result in misusers experiencing symptoms of fluid retention and increased risk of development of diabetes mellitus and hypertension. There is also a risk of cardiomyopathy, osteoporosis, menstrual irregularities, and impotence. Some of these side effects are reversible after withdrawal of the drug.

You're in the peculiar position of wanting thicker bones as opposed to more muscle. I don't know how you can get that just in your peripherals without fucking up your face. If you want an actually well-informed answer, you probably want the kind of sports-physician who has a cult following in the powerlifting community and isn't overly afraid of losing their license.

Hey man thanks a lot, this is very informative. Looks like there are some serious risks of long-term use...so most likely would only do this for a year and see what happens while eating a surplus. Yeah, the neanderthal look would be an unwelcome side effect. Figured there could be a dose somewhere in between that would do what I want without fucking up my face completely, but perhaps this magical goldilocks dose doesn't exist. I will look around and see if I can find one of those powerlifting physicians you speak of.

I decided to look around some more and the more I read, the worse an idea this seems.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31100715/

When GH and IGF-I are secreted in excess, bone remodeling is enhanced leading to deterioration of bone microstructure and impairment of bone strength. Indeed, acromegaly causes skeletal fragility, and vertebral fractures are reported in a remarkable number of subjects exposed to GH and IGF-I excess.

In other words, you'll have thicker bones. But they'll be unhealthy bones, that'll be more prone to fracture under stress. That seems entirely counterproductive for your goals.

By all means see that doctor if you're keen to have a definitive answer, but from where I'm standing, this probably won't have any positive results even if you have a strong risk appetite. I see no evidence of threshold effects, where there's an amount of HGH post-puberty that-

  1. Noticeably thickens bones
  2. Makes those thick bones actually stronger
  3. Doesn't cause acromegaly.

Be very careful with the stuff.

Oof. Point taken...I already have osteoporosis so it would suck to deteriorate bone quality. I figured up to now that because my growth was stunted I'd be particularly suited for HGH, but with low bone density I think it might be that I'm particularly not suited for HGH.

They are finally confirmed to be getting denser now that I'm maintaining a middle-range-normal BMI instead of a borderline normal BMI, and if I manage to naturally get to a density Z-score of 0 maybe there will be some natural thickening that occurs, who knows. I'm not hugely optimistic about the prospect of noticeable natural thickening at my age but I don't think anyone has studied whether bones only recover density versus recovering both density and some thickness in recovery from malnutrition as an adult.

At least my search turned up no results on recovery of bone thickness. "Catch up" growth obviously doesn't work for height after growth plate closure, but nobody out there seems to be even asking the question about catch-up growth of bone thickness. I hope the phenomenon exists and doesn't depend as much on growth plate status, but haven't had any measurable thickening in myself yet. I guess I'll be a case study if my ankles and wrists circumference somehow grow to what they should be genetically (around 20-25th percentile most likely, currently sitting somewhere off the chart below the 1st percentile).

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