This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What country map are you talking about? One can't average the whole of Italy due to it effectively being two countries stitched together. The differences are very big.
Lots of studies show Sicily having an average IQ of about 90 with northern Italy having slightly above 100, with the GDP per capita difference being over 100%
Yes. That's why I was asking. The map in the post OP links to just treats Italy as a whole unit.
Okay. But that's explained by upwardly mobile Sicilians leaving after WW2.
I'm not even disputing it necessarily. Cousin marriage is high in that culture, for example.
It would be interesting to see how diaspora Sicilians test.
And yet when people from other similar regions emigrated in similar numbers during largely the same time period, due to the same incentives, the population iq remained more or less completely unchanged? Only in Sicily did it go down by 10 whole IQ points?
If there is some kind of emigration driven selection effects happening it's been going on for far longer, considering Italian cultural and economic development. Southern Italy and Sicily have been backwards since literally the Roman times.
Firstly, don't hold back out of fear of offending me.
Are you sure it's similar? My parents are Sicilian born during WW2 and something like 80% of my extended family in my parents' generation GTFO. Just packed up and relocated to America, whole hog.
In my obviously anecdata view, if you can leave Sicily, you do.
Not to blame everything on colonialism but if you look at the history of Sicily it's conquered over and over again throughout the millenia due to strategic importance to empires since it's in the center of the Mediterranean. My vibe from the place and the culture is that trying to coordinate above the familial unit level is considered for schmucks[1]
This can of course make you relatively retarded if you stick to farming instead of exploring (say) lending and accounting as a profession.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link