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The threshold is defamation.
So the threshold is a sympathetic judge? Because there's an awful lot of defamation on the level of Alex Jones going around, and a whole lot of it isn't being punished with bankruptcy. What about every journalist and outlet who, even post-trial, smeared (falsely) Kyle Rittenhouse as a murderer or other sort of problem?
Where?
Kyle Rittenhouse can and should sue them. I don't know if he'll prevail, but it's worth a shot. But whether what Rittenhouse did constitutes murder is a lot closer to a reasonable opinion than that the bereaved parents of murdered Sandy Hook elementary school children are actually crisis actors.
Oh, gosh, where to begin. Let's see, Democrats saying terrible, evil things about people...
What about Hillary Clinton repeatedly calling Donald Trump a variation of "Putin's Puppet", or otherwise accusing him of capital offenses and besmirching his character? It's hard to imagine a more damning smear in the political sphere -- being a Benedict Arnold is a way to go down in history for the worse!
"But Trump is a politician, so making shit up about him isn't a big deal!"
Okay, fine. What about Mary Lewanski, who carried water for the Waukesha murderer, and said the citizens there deserved it because it was karma? She resigned from her post, admittedly, but where's the billion dollar award for the people of Waukesha? I'd link this, but she'd scrubbed her accounts -- if you Google you can find plenty of screenshots, though, don't take my word for it. The traumatized citizens of Waukesha aren't
"Okay, but she's just a member of the DNC, not a major politician, and besides, she didn't even use anyone's specific name!"
Fine, fine.
How about Rep. Haukeem Jeffries peddling various falsehoods and inflammatory bits of misinformation, such as lying about what happened in Kenosha with Kyle Rittenhouse, or the shooting of Jacob Blake, rapist, child abductor, and felon extraordinare
(you can find more quotes from him if you want, that's just one piece).
Zero respect for the rule of law, zero knowledge of the situation, throwing political weight around and advocating for the lifetime incarceration of an innocent boy who was attacked. How irresponsible, too, given the media circus surrounding Rittenhouse, he's seriously endangering him with that sort of remark -- who knows what kind of mad vigilante might be inspired to "correct" the justice system's moral failures.
You want to say Alex Jones is a piece of shit who bullies innocent people for his cause, makes up lies about their trauma, and in general deserves a harsh punishment? Fine. Get those three people above to pay out and we can talk.
Could I get your search terms? I can’t find anything.
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Impugning a politician's loyalties or motivations is objectively less crazy than claiming that the Sandy Hook Massacre literally did not occur.
Disagreements about moral dessert is objectively less crazy than claiming that the Sandy Hook Massacre literally did not occur.
You can disagree with the framing (as I do) but it does not contradict physical reality nearly to the extent of claiming that the Sandy Hook Massacre literally did not occur.
And specifically that he does so with ludicrous bad-faith falsehoods, such as claiming that the Sandy Hook Massacre literally did not occur.
I feel like you've tried throughout this exchange to avoid grappling with the actual craziness of Alex Jones' claims.
Claiming a false flag school massacre is exactly as ludicrous as claiming Kyle Rittenhouse belongs in prison. His activities were caught on film; there is no ambiguity, which is why his trial was so decisively in his favor. It's also as ridiculous as claiming innocent children deserved to be run over.
I reject your special pleading. Alex Jones' lies and harassment are not magically worse than the left's lies and harassment.
Contentions involving "reasonable belief of serious bodily injury" and similar legal distinctions are inherently more reasonable than denying that the Sandy Hook massacre even occurred. This isn't about left versus right, it's about Alex Jones being a uniquely clownish figure across both sides of the aisle, frequently telling lies that are absurd to a degree effectively unmatched in the world of US politics. I support gun rights too, for what it's worth. We don't actually have a difference of opinion on any of the related policy matters. The only difference between us here is the difference in depths that you and I are willing to stoop in defending ludicrous lies if they are directionally aligned with our policy preferences.
Once again, I reject this special pleading. It's not going to get you anywhere.
I don't need to go anywhere; my views already won. The legal outcome is what it is.
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I agree that there are democrats who should say less, but i think you are significantly downplaying how inflammatory Jones' opinions are. If you say democratic pundits have similarly ridiculous views, please hit me with an example that is on the level of this, from someone roughly as recognizable as Jones. https://youtube.com/watch?v=KGAAhzreGWw
Also one comment up you suggest that the DNC was supportive of the BLM riots, then backtrack to the motte of "democratic pundits". Why even bother with the bailey if you are gonna reframe in the next sentence?
I think we both know that the DNC doesn't broadcast an opinion on events in a comparable way to a talk show.
There was no backtracking. I don't know why you interpreted what I said as a backtrack.
As for examples: the things said about Kyle Rittenhouse, as already mentioned, are absolutely on par with the things Jones said.
by whomst? People arguing the merits of self defense vs. murder is way more rational of a discourse than whatever alex jones goes on about. I understand this somewhat subjective, but are you saying you see accusing people of eating babies and worshipping satan (with no evidence) as the same level of ridiculousness as wanting a guy who (legally) shot others to be charged with murder?
You got me that the DNC says more inflammatory stuff than i thought they did, but i still think jones is way crazier than any well known dem.
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You sure? Here, here, and here are the comments they made in the week after Floyd's death. Those three statements (combined) don't meet my standard for responsibility, but A) someone else can have different standards, and B) it's not a complete list.
(If you want to replicate my search, go to https://democrats.org/news/page/276/ , read the headlines and click on likely ones, then go to the more recent releases until you feel like stopping.)
I'll admit thats way more ridiculous messaging than i had seen from them elsewhere, mea culpa i should look before i speak in that regard.
No worries. It took me years to learn that you can just look up public information when things are unclear.
(One of the more recent places where "just look it up" helped me was reading about Carolyn Strom: every news source printed an almost-identical, obviously incomplete story. Sometimes, they were actually identical because they were reposting from a wire service. Going to the court records was so much more informative.)
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