site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 17, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Like many here I'm the type that would be one of the engineers in this list and I'm a little skeptical this the first jobs to get let go in a contraction can tell you all that much about which jobs are "bullshit". People have already covered that recruiters, much like fracking, can be essential and have good value returns when engineers or oil is difficult to extract and worth a lot are less important when supply is abundant and cheap. But just in general this isn't the right way to look at businesses. The telling part is that sales people aren't let go. At least in my experience the sales people are making the value directly, they're contacting syndicators or clients or whatever directly and bringing business. The engineers support the sales people with new tools but in very harsh times they can be scrapped and sales people can make due with the older tools. recruiters are even more easy to let go because you can keep improving with the engineers you have. Each role is useful and not a bullshit jobs but their relative usefulness is more or less correlated with whether the company is being lean to survive or attempting to grow and improve and that is more responsive to the economy than anything like inherent usefulness.

The problem with recruiters is that 95% of them can be replaced with a python script and a picture of a IG influencer.

To be fair there are a lot of engineers that when let go their team productivity will go up.