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/pol/ had the kill shot years ago. How are they good for us but not their home country?
If we answered that question truthfully we could have a serious discussion about exact numbers to allow, rather than having to "dance" around it with the sledgehammer of the elimination of all H-class Visas. We could say, biologically, there is a maximum and knowable quantity of immigration candidates from any given country with average standards of living below the West.
Then, if we were allowing more than that umber, we would know either our standards were slipping, or they were being gamed.
Europeans and certain other populations exhibit a high average level of civilized behavior, call that inclination h, following from g. Russia is very close to the US, in many ways more civilized, but I would still feel confident saying measured on the whole, Russia is one standard deviation below America in h value. One step of degradation below Russia is not India, so India must be at least two steps below Russia, which means it is no closer than three below the United States. In comparison, Iceland is probably one sigma above, and Japan two.
I think this is imprecise, that there are external factors to an extent, but there are such obvious differences looking from India, to the US, to Japan, that there's something intrinsic and gestalt that speaks broadly to the peoples, and that does feel close enough.
For an Indian immigrant to match, they would need come from a population at least 3 sigmas above India's average h. This rejects almost all Indians, from 1.4 billion to 1.9 million. It's less than that, though, because if you want to improve a country, you can't bring in people who are only average. So the actual line starts at 4 sigmas, and that reduces it to about 45,000.
I have no problem believing there are about 45,000 Indians who would contribute to the strength of America. It's math. Here's the problem, I would assume a minimum of half of those persons intend to live out their days as citizens of India, using their talents in their own country for their own gain. Also consider others in that population will have immigrated elsewhere, such as Europe. This means short of calamitous conditions wherein only America is a viable immigration target, we should have a soft cap of 20,000, to in no circumstances exceed the hard cap of 45,000.
We're well over that. In 2023 (Page 32) there were 279,386 H-1B issuances to Indian nationals. Ignore everything I just wrote, I know that number immediately as gross excess. The US isn't lacking, in anything, to the degree that it requires the importation of nearly 300,000 laborers from a single country. Especially when you remember, that's just the H-1B admissions.
Despite this, it is conceivable the number could exceed 45,000, but only if we instituted extremely strict requirements, ensured those requirements could not be gamed, abolished birthright citizenship including retroactive revocations, etc.
Who says they aren't good for their own country?
If anything they are the only thing preventing their country from going to the dogs. If you had Brunel +50 million chimps stranded on an island the average living quality and infrastructure will be chimp tier, even though Brunel on his own would be a massive positive contributor (but when all you have is chimps you really can't do much more than a few small bridges). America should take Brunel and leave the chimps behind and if the choice is between giving an engineering job to the foreign Brunel or a local chimp, well then Brunel should get it.
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Have you been to Alabama?
Perhaps not a majority, but a lot of modern white Americans are an amalgamation of the most grotesque personal attributes imaginable, with obesity at the top of that list. The average second generation Indian American I meet is leagues above in terms of physical shape, courteousness, and overall pleasantness to be around.
I've lived in Alabama my whole life. Spoiler alert: our second generation Indians are plenty fat themselves, my personal favorites being the one who talks endlessly about his bodybuilding/going to the gym (He's not fat now, but nowhere near as buff as you would expect for someone who allegedly puts that much effort into the gym.) but is so lazy that he refused to change his own tire for years and the professor's kid who had a master's in economics but couldn't quite hack delivering pizza (The latter also happens to be one of the most insufferably arrogant and patronizing people I've ever met. He once told me that delivering pizza burns 250 calories an hour and that sort of fat logic, my friends, is how you wind up morbidly obese.).
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Uhh yes?
Its kind of the perfect sort of place to base such an argument on. They have a heavy base load of non-white descendants of slaves that drags down the whole state's performance, particularly that of the averagish whites who have to fend for themselves as the upper tiers enclave themselves away for safety purposes.
As for the remainder of your comments, I find even them incorrect aside from the weight comments, and again those only apply to those so afflicted by the spillover effects of the inadvisable policies of keeping slaves, and/or not deporting said when freed. The latter policy which might be considered intentional by those who enacted it, but has eventually spilled northwards to fairly negative effects.
I largely agree with you, but it’s obvious the european stock in Alabama and indeed much of the south is poor. One sees this phenotypically even disregarding (and one should not) obesity; eyes are muddy, jawlines are weak, New England whites (whether Irish, Anglo or other) are more attractive. Tellingly, crime rates are also much higher among this population than other European descent populations.
What do you largely agree with him about, the part where he blamed white obesity on slavery? It sounds like you completely disagree.
I agree in that liberals are disingenuous when they blame a lot of ‘bad stats’ in red states (crime, welfare usage etc) on white conservatives. I disagree in that the whites that are present are often clearly also lower performing than other groups of the same broad ancestral category.
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Many times. Huntsville Space Center, c'mon.
There are people who you could persuade with this weak anecdote, I'm the wrong guy. One, because you're talking about the general geographic region in which I live, and two, with rare exception those very rural areas still have functional uncorrupt county-level governments, running water, electricity, telecommunications, waste removal services, and facilitating the rest, good roads, because right now there are enough high h people to make up for the low h people. Those places are also orders of magnitude safer for a foreigner to walk through alone, especially a woman. Versus India, where "an amalgamation of the most grotesque personal attributes imaginable" might more Indians than there are people in North America.
But those insults are yours. My attitude on this is we are strengthened by immigration of truly the very best of anyone into this country. The very best. The chief problem of governance is the sociopaths and specifically the long-since suppressed immune response against the cancer that is those sociopaths. With enough time they always get in, and then they weaken and weaken the system, allowing more sociopaths to get in or otherwise game the system. There's well over a billion Indians, so it's just math that genetically-top-percentile-prosocial people from the subcontinent will be a massive raw number. Yet I look at pictures from India and I think, where the fuck are they? You wouldn't know it, and that's because what's also a massive raw number is those of top-percentile deceitfulness and other antisocial behaviors, and they've been allowed to build entire industries in India around their sociopathy, including gaming American immigration.
I like India, I like Indians, or I have a general affinity for them all, I imagine especially when comparing me to those who I share views with on this. With McCarthy's passing, the greatest living author is Salman Rushdie, he's Indian. One of the few actually deserving Booker Prize winners of the last now 20 years is Aravind Adiga, another Indian. Gukesh Dommaraju just became the youngest world chess champion, the second Indian of the last four champions. I've seen pictures, I've seen the beauty, I know there are brilliant people, there's just too goddamn many for the United States to practice anything less than brutal selectiveness about who of them gets to come. Most especially when Indians here show such nepotism in hiring, while pursuing corporate practices and legislative efforts to make it so their own can more easily get into this country.
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This analysis assumes that there is a single Indian population whose traits are normally distributed, but it seems pretty clear that there are in fact dozens of genetically and culturally distinct subpopulations that differ in average g and h by at least 1 or 2 SD's. This plays havoc with any tail-end estimates and there is an unfortunate lack of data in this area.
I would say, and I did say, it seems reasonable to consider factor h civility of a nation something gestalt. If 150 million Indians truly abhor their living conditions, their h is nevertheless indicted for failing to effect change.
It's charitable anyway to consider it a collective trait of people from India, and that's because with so many ethnic groups of presumably differing h, the alternative is a general ban.
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