This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This doesn't happen. Bans are almost always approved by more than one moderator. We always let each other know when we have carried out a ban and for what reasons.
Amadan in particular is diligent about recusing himself when he thinks there might even be a hint of bias.
He is still the most active mod on the team. I'd consider him a pillar of the community and essential to keeping this place running.
You on the other hand are on the opposite end of the spectrum. You've been on thin ice for about the entire 8 months that you have had this account active. 7 warnings, 3 tempbans, and no quality posts.
Your pattern of behavior follows many such permabans in the past. You are a dick to everyone to start. Then as your warnings and bans increase you mostly just direct the trolling towards the mods in particular, so it starts looking like any punishment of you is just retalliation for your "speaking truth to power".
I'd rather not go through the whole rigamarole where we pretend you are going to in some way reform. But we have the process in place so these accusations can be seen as false every time they inevitably get trotted out by every bad faith actor we have on this forum.
If I see you making more unfounded accusations against a moderator like this, then I'll be in favor of a permaban, regardless of how it "looks" because at some point its just not worth dealing with this crap again and again.
I'm unsurprised to say the least. Have you guys made any progress on hiding votes on mod actions? That would really help the old consensus machine a lot.
If anyone thinks I'm being rude to them, I'd like them to say it so I can apologize properly.
We have made no progress on this because we have never considered doing it. This is like all your other claims about what the mods are supposedly doing. You make it up, just as you made up the claim that I "have arguments with people, then ban them for a two week old post a day later."
I don't need your apology for being rude, but I would like you to apologize for lying.
Sure, I absolutely apologize for claiming that without having evidence on hand. It was a pointless gibe that I shouldn't have jumped to making.
I admit I am surprised, and I appreciate the apology.
Now would you consider the possibility that some of the other things you say (about the mod team, and about me) are off base? I really don't care if you don't like me, if you think I am "woke," if you think I am too sympathetic to liberal posters, or if you think I am too stupid to spot trolls. But whether you believe this or not, every member of the mod team tries very hard to act in good faith and to make considered and fair decisions. We are human beings with biases, but nobody here is trying to secretly shape the Motte to conform to our personal biases. Nobody on the mod team, individually or in collaboration, has a plot to purge the Motte of "undesirables" (whatever you think undesirables might be to us). We have expended enormous energy and effort and (in Zorba's case) resources to create a place where even the most noxious "witches" are allowed to post with only minimal restrictions (e.g., no fedposting, no personal attacks, and don't be an ass).
If you limited yourself to ranting about how much you hate leftists, you'd be like half the Motte and rarely attract our attention. But every time we mod you, or we mod someone else who you agree with, you post some snide jab at our "secret agenda" and "consensus building." To say nothing of the things you send in DMs and reports. When you keep kicking us in the shins, eventually we're going to react, and all you have to is stop doing that.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link