site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 18, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

But how is "believes in good faith, exercising her best medical judgment...that the medical exception to Texas’ abortion bans and laws permits an abortion in Ms. Cox’s circumstances" not asserting a "reasonable medical judgment"?

Because those "good faith" and "reasonableness" are two different standards in law, and the plaintiffs were trying to get the courts to accept a "good faith" standard when the statute required a "reasonableness" one.

So Karsan literally used all the magic words from the statute except "reasonable." This gives the state Supreme Court license to ignore her recommendation, revoke her legal protection, and send her employer a threatening letter about how she's still risking their accreditation. All while insisting that "Only a doctor can exercise 'reasonable medical judgment'."

Her legal protection was not revoked; she just didn't have it because she refused to commit to a "reasonable medical judgement". And yes, that means all three words.

No, it doesn’t. In the first footnote of their response, the Supreme Court defines “reasonable medical judgment.”

a medical judgment made by a reasonably prudent physician, knowledgeable about a case and the treatment possibilities for the medical condition involved.

Which of these did Dr. Karsan not attest? More importantly, why doesn’t the Supreme Court specify?

Even if you don’t think the abortion was necessary—isn’t this perverse? The state is shooting down every attempt to clarify its laws before committing a potentially criminal act.

She did not attest to a medical judgement made by a reasonably prudent physician, only to a "good faith belief". This isn't mere words, they're different legal standards, and the pleading goes into this.

Even if you don’t think the abortion was necessary—isn’t this perverse? The state is shooting down every attempt to clarify its laws before committing a potentially criminal act.

It shot down an attempt to lower the standard of judgement that was required by statute. This seems legally correct.

I agree with @MadMonzer that even if Texas prohibits abortion, they should have an exception for non-viability of the fetus. But they don't, and trying to add one by allowing physicians to lie without consequence about the danger to the mother (which is no doubt how Paxton views this) isn't legally sound.