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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   35145 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 11, 2024

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Basically all the stereotypes about X or Y European culture being rude/unfriendly/etc. are false. They come from a combination of clueless tourists not realizing they're being rude first, or from Europeans playing up cultural mismatches/national rivalries. Even Parisians are no less friendly than the inhabitants of any comparable big city.

There are also a bunch of intra-African stereotypes Westerners would find very surprising to hear, but they tend to reflect reasonably accurately how Africans experience other cultures, so they're largely a result of different selection affects from intra-African migration relative to Africa-to-West migration. (This is talking about general stereotypes, of course, not those stemming from national or tribal beefs, which are just as ridiculous as the Dutch calling Germans bicycle thieves, but usually without the joking aspect).

Even Parisians are no less friendly than the inhabitants of any comparable big city.

This is totally wrong, have you seen how Parisians park? They literally ram the car in front and behind them with their bumpers to make room for parallel parking. Strangers will scratch up your bumper to make their parking easier and won't see anything wrong with it. This would be considered extremely rude in most other places.

Here's a video of Americans being shocked by Parisian parking: https://youtube.com/watch?v=n51OdFlOi1o

I would agree Parisians are crazy behind the wheel of a car, but I think that's orthogonal to friendliness.

Basically all the stereotypes about X or Y European culture being rude/unfriendly/etc. are false.

Interestingly enough, I have exactly the counter view of US culture, especially related to restaurant service. I find US waiters as rude. First they impose themselves upon me as if I care about their name or their stupid questions about where I am from or why am I in the US - as if I cannot tell that they don't give a shit. Then they constantly interrupt me and my friends with inane sales pitches - and if god forbid we go under some invisible sum of $spending per minute, then they actually slam the bill on the table and just kick me out as if I am some hobo. So much for friendliness. To me US waiters are bunch of fake stupid clowns putting on clownshow for US patrons, who for some reason like that shit.

Nevertheless despite this rant, I put up with it when I am overseas and act accordingly with fake smiles and everything - each country has its own thing and US people like their waiters to be clowns for some reason, it is what it is. I am not there to reeducate them about proper continental way of "invisible" manners of waiting staff. But it would be good to have some basic respect for other cultures as well and not take your own manners as the etalon everybody in the world should aspire to. For instance Japanese people are polite, they do not like to be touched and in general like their space. People in Brasil on the other hand love to touch each other, so if somebody comes to me and taps me on my back he means no disrespect or sexual assault or whatnot.

if god forbid we go under some invisible sum of $spending per minute, then they actually slam the bill on the table and just kick me out as if I am some hobo. So much for friendliness.

The hell? I have literally never had this happen in my entire life in the US. Either there's some other layer to why you're having that experience, or you are the unluckiest person to ever visit a restaurant here.

Maybe you reacted to dozens of "rude" cues of waiters who want to remove you from the table - after paying the tip of course - so they can sit down somebody else who will consume some more. If you ignore those hints, then the service can get really nasty. Try it sometimes.

Yes, U.S. waiters are awful.

"Hi, I'm Stacy, and I'm going to be taking care of you today".

10 minutes after your food arrives: "You still working on that?"

French service is much better, generally.

There are also a bunch of intra-African stereotypes Westerners would find very surprising to hear, but they tend to reflect reasonably accurately how Africans experience other cultures

Well, please go on, I want to be surprised.

There is a sentiment I’ve heard many times from Americans abroad which boils down to, “don’t worry, I’m American, it’s fine to be informal”.

It’s well-meant but often comes off as demanding unearned intimacy, or worse as, “I’m not interested in playing your silly provincial status games”.

or worse as, “I’m not interested in playing your silly provincial status games”

That's one of the only privileges you have as a foreign worker if assimilation is not your goal. Just smile and trample every boundary.

There’s a difference between trying and getting it wrong, versus thinking you’re doing everyone a favour by failing to respect how people are supposed to behave. Trampling people’s boundaries is deeply disrespectful to them and shows poor character IMO.

I remember a tourist I met once at a Meetup; she immediately gave me a rather demeaning nickname, clearly intending it as a playful icebreaker. Frankly I was appalled. I tried to be nice and not hold it against her but I still remember it as a quintessential example of someone trying to leapfrog social customs and botching it.

Hmm, but then why do I hear stereotypes about various central American or SE Asian countries being very friendly? I'm sure there are many rude tourists there, but somehow they come away thinking everyone is nice.

The cultures are in some ways more compatible with the US, but there's also an element of those countries being poor and needing tourist $$$ more, so their tourist-facing norms ended up being shaped differently.

It probably has to do with money.

In poor countries, people will dance for you. In rich countries, they won't. I actually much prefer the detachment of the French waiter who is too good for my filthy American dollars.

In the Third World, I always feel like a leaky sack of money more than a human.

Edit: Thinking about this some more, Latin Americans really do seem to have a friendly and positive attitude.

Also hilarious when people assume that Southeast Asians are more progressive than Westerners based on essentially 'The resort staff in a very narrow slice of Bali didn't say anything negative about my gay relationship, therefore progressive country'

People from big countries and open spaces seem to be more open and positive than people in more cramped conditions.

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