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PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   21321 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 11, 2024

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Removing obstacles from a path is not "putting them on a path". Do you object to roads, because they put criminals on the path towards bank robbery?

It sounds like arguing semantics to me. If one hand the public health administration is removing obstacles, and on the other the education system is telling kids they might be "born in the wrong body" if they don't fit into a given mold, and than hide the information about the child's transition from parents, that sounds like it all adds up to putting children on a path to transition.

Which "mutilations" had the minimum age requirements changed? What are the new requirements?

Draft of SOC8:

The following recommendations are made regarding the requirements for gender affirming medical and surgical treatment:

(...)

F. The adolescent has reached Tanner 2 stage of puberty for pubertal suppression. G. The adolescent is the following age for each treatment:

  • 14 years and above for hormone treatment (estrogens or androgens), unless there are significant, compelling reasons to take an individualized approach, considering the factors unique to the adolescent treatment frame.
  • 15 years and above for chest masculinization; unless there are significant, compelling reasons to take an individualized approach, considering the factors unique to the adolescent treatment frame.
  • 16 years and above for breast augmentation, facial surgery (including rhinoplasty, tracheal shave, and genioplasty) as part of gender affirming treatment; unless there are significant, compelling reasons to take an individualized approach, considering the factors unique to the adolescent treatment frame.
  • 17 and above for metoidioplasty, orchidectomy, vaginoplasty, and hysterectomy and fronto-orbital remodeling as part of gender affirming treatment unless there are significant, compelling reasons to take an individualized approach, considering the factors unique to the adolescent treatment frame.
  • 18 years or above for phalloplasty, unless there are significant, compelling reasons to take an individualized approach, considering the factors unique to the adolescent treatment frame"

H. The adolescent had at least 12 months of gender affirming hormone therapy, or longer if required to achieve the desired surgical result for gender-affirming procedures including, Breast augmentation, Orchiectomy, Vaginoplasty, Hysterectomy, Phalloplasty metoidioplasty and facial surgery as part of gender affirming treatment unless hormone therapy is either not desired or is medically contraindicated.

vs. published SOC8

6.12.f- The adolescent has reached Tanner stage 2 of puberty for pubertal suppression to be initiated.

6.12.g- The adolescent had at least 12 months of gender-affirming hormone therapy or longer, if required, to achieve the desired surgical result for gender-affirming procedures, including breast augmentation, orchiectomy, vaginoplasty, hysterectomy, phalloplasty, metoidioplasty, and facial surgery as part of gender-affirming treatment unless hormone therapy is either not desired or is medically contraindicated.

There's also points A-E, but everything about minimum ages has been removed.

Edit: I think they mention the 18 years for phalloplasty when they elaborate on the chapter.

So, again, for starters: none of that is mutilation, just regular surgery.

Second, right there in the guidelines: this is the section for adolescents. Children is section 7. When your actual source makes the distinction between kids and teenagers, I feel like it's a bit disingenuous to keep calling them "kids"

Third, that's the section on "treatments requested by the patient". It's not putting someone on a path when they are already on that path and merely asking for help.

I don't see how this is different from anyone else trying to get medical treatment for their illness. Would you be horrified to learn that we also let children be treated for cancer and depression? Should there be a minimum age for those, too?

So, again, for starters: none of that is mutilation, just regular surgery.

Unnecessary surgery that removes healthy body parts is mutilation, as are unnecessary hormonal treatments.

Second, right there in the guidelines: this is the section for adolescents. Children is section 7. When your actual source makes the distinction between kids and teenagers, I feel like it's a bit disingenuous to keep calling them "kids"

When people say "kids" they mean "minors", performing these treatments on even younger children is even worse, but a mastectomy performed on a 16 year old girl is still atrocious.

Third, that's the section on "treatments requested by the patient".

No one cares, the patient is a minor that doesn't know anything about what they're talking about.

I don't see how this is different from anyone else trying to get medical treatment for their illness.

There is no evidence that any illness is involved. The only criteria necessary to get a dysphoria diagnosis is:

  • Say you're trans

  • Don't change your mind for a few months

Even those loose criteria aren't always followed.

Would you be horrified to learn that we also let children be treated for cancer and depression?

Cancer has proper diagnostic criteria, so no on that, but if a doctor insisted I have to give drugs to 14 year old for "depression" (or "anxiety" or ADHD) I'd find it absurd.

Should there be a minimum age for those, too?

Probably. Psychology is very unrigorous, and we should not let these kind of doctors make decisions about children, that go against the wishes of parents.

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