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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 11, 2024

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And I'm assuming producing another log of innocuous-looking deletions for that same "made-up" procedural reason will not change your mind either?

Literally why would it? Also, why are you criticizing me for not changing my mind, when I'm proposing a test that would falsify my belief, and you're just looking for excuses to never change yours?

Do you believe organisations are unlikely to have procedural reasons that don't serve political agendas contrary to yours?

It's not about "contrary to mine", and yes I believe it's rare for organizations to neutrally apply their procedural rules, unless they have a healthy balance of worldviews, political agendas, and values, in their decision-making positions.

Literally why would it?

If you begin with the premise that Wikipedia has a habit of deleting pictures politically under made-up pretenses, then sure, it wouldn't. You would reject any procedure they have and any amount of work they do that ostensibly furthers that procedure in non-political cases as just covering it up.

Also, why are you criticizing me for not changing my mind, when I'm proposing a test that would falsify my belief, and you're just looking for excuses to never change yours?

I expect someone who's seeking the truth to attempt to falsify their belief first, especially if they're well aware the test they proposed is onerous. What you're doing, on the other hand, is the equivalent of a flat earther who smugly offers their interlocutor to go to space and see for themselves. It's a strategy for winning pedant arguments, not truth-seeking.

I'm putting the onus on you because I believe my case is more plausible. When you hear hooves, you think horses, not zebras, and if you're convinced a malicious agent has replaced your random sample with 100% zebras, I expect you to present something in favor of that.

You would reject any procedure they have and any amount of work they do that ostensibly furthers that procedure in non-political cases as just covering it up.

The stated procedure they have doesn't enter the picture here, so I'm not even rejecting it. I'm saying they'll try to come up with any excuse to remove that photo.

I expect someone who's seeking the truth to attempt to falsify their belief first, especially if they're well aware the test they proposed is onerous. What you're doing, on the other hand, is the equivalent of a flat earther who smugly offers their interlocutor to go to space and see for themselves.

What are you talking about? I'm offering to do it myself, I just don't want to go through the process you describe as onerous yourself, if it will be met with an after-the-fact justification, and a refusal to change one's mind.

I'm putting the onus on you because I believe my case is more plausible

I'm not talking about the onus of going through the work, I'm talking about the accusation that I'm not willing to change my mind. I'm the one that put forward a test, you and sarker are coming up with excuses for why it won't necessary prove anything, if it comes out the way I predict.

When you hear hooves, you think horses, not zebras

And by that logic I think that an organization that doesn't have a healthy balance of opinion in positions of influence will use their rules in a biased way.

and if you're convinced a malicious agent has replaced your random sample with 100% zebras

Who told you the sample was ever random?

I'm offering to do it myself, I just don't want to go through the process you describe as onerous yourself, if it will be met with an after-the-fact justification, and a refusal to change one's mind.

Very well. I'll copy sarker here. If you upload the image to Wikipedia and state that it's free use (similar to the Charleston example), I do not think it will be removed due to missing licensing info (which is what happened last time). If they do remove it again, for any reason, I'll grant that this case smells fishy and that you were correct to doubt it in spite of information that pointed towards lack of malice.

And by that logic I think that an organization that doesn't have a healthy balance of opinion in positions of influence will use their rules in a biased way.

There are different available degrees of confidence about this. "They'll be marginally quicker than usual to delete the picture if it clearly breaks the rules" is one degree. "They will not stop at anything to keep this picture off the wiki" is another.

Who told you the sample was ever random?

Looks random enough to me.