site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 28, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

By "almost zero", there has literally never been confirmed case of squirrel-to-human rabies transmission. It's not the same level of literally impossible as doing the same to a possum, who just can't get the disease, but it's extremely hard to read as anything but a pretext such that any challenge to the 'investigation' would be moot.

As... evidenced by the bit where they euthanized the raccoon, too. Though from what I can find, it looks like that the DEC started with the raccoon and the squirrel was a side benefit.

The whole thing is fractally stupid. There's a layer on top of things where I'd love to debate the merits of laws against keeping wildlife as pets -- tbf, they don't make good pets! But given that the laws are near-always originally meant for more like Florida Man Tiger King bullshittery and inevitably turn into a vehicle for various 'born free' morons to euthanize squirrels and ferrets on their way to eliminating cats. But New York, at least on the books, doesn't ban this: there's a mess of licensing for 'exhibition' of 'dangerous animals' like the raccoon. The potential for handling these matters exists, the government just didn't want to handle it like mature adults.

I expect some of that's the squirrel's owner being a bit of a putz, but 'we just abuse power when the target is kinda annoying'.

But like the recent revelations in the Penny case, that's kinda the point. There's no putting the toothpaste back into the tube, here; there is no meaningful way to challenge it.

But given that the laws are near-always originally meant for more like Florida Man Tiger King bullshittery

Of course, Joe Exotic’s menagerie was entirely legal. He’s in prison for putting a hit on Carol Baskin.

As it turns out, the law is no deterrent to sufficiently motivated crazy people- they’re more willing to jump through hoops to do the supremely retarded things they can’t get away with just ignoring the law on.

for various 'born free' morons to euthanize squirrels and ferrets on their way to eliminating cats.

I couldn't find a justification for the "eliminating cats" claim on that thread.(Some) Bird people certainly want to make outdoor cats illegal, but I haven't seen anyone want to actually eliminate all cats.

Off topic, but unfortunately TNR somehow fails to reduce feral cat populations (I don't have a cite for this off the top of my head, but I read it in Cat Sense). I don't have a problem with people letting their cats out, at least in the US (although we should recognize that the density of cats in residential neighborhoods is much greater than the density of the wild felids that lived there before, so the bobcat comparison is unconvincing).