site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 21, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Yarvin seems allergic to making minor nuanced claims. Go big or go home is his approach. It makes his writing more interesting, but also wrong more often.

I wonder what the reasons are for the LA times owner saying don't endorse Kamala. It could be that the owner likes Trump, but it could also be a more mundane business decision, like "neither of them has spent money advertising with us, and we shouldn't be a free whore".

Yarvin is being a pretty good scientist here. He has a theory of history (one that actually holds up under scrutiny, unlike the Narrative Theory of History) that can actually lead him to making pretty accurate predictions about what kinds of things will happen— and he can do so making those predictions before the fact, something the Narrative Theory cannot do. Yes, he’s wrong more often, but it’s because he’s actually making a falsifiable prediction, not a prediction that can be nuanced into meaning whatever he needs it to mean. The “nuance” of the Narrative is exactly an attempt at avoiding falsifiable predictions. If they’re “wrong” it’s because they were misunderstood and if you just understood how complicated the system actually is, they were right, as always if only you understood the nuances.

The “Historian Predicted a bunch of Presidential Elections” bit is to me, exactly that. The keys are vague. Kamala can be an incumbent. Wars mean exactly what they need to mean. The economic indicators used can be anything. So even if he’s wrong, it’s actually right, but you missed the nuance.

For what it's worth:

So many comments about the @latimes Editorial Board not providing a Presidential endorsement this year. Let me clarify how this decision came about.

The Editorial Board was provided the opportunity to draft a factual analysis of all the POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE policies by EACH candidate during their tenures at the White House, and how these policies affected the nation. In addition, the Board was asked to provide their understanding of the policies and plans enunciated by the candidates during this campaign and its potential effect on the nation in the next four years. In this way, with this clear and non-partisan information side-by-side, our readers could decide who would be worthy of being President for the next four years.

Instead of adopting this path as suggested, the Editorial Board chose to remain silent and I accepted their decision. Please #vote.

https://x.com/DrPatSoonShiong/status/1849217132183060705

His very online progressive daughter retweeted that as well, along with an excerpt about how he got arrested for participating in anti-apartheid activities.

The LA Time is not a Trumpy paper. There's actually interesting family drama between the owner - an immigrant South African/Chinese surgeon and pharmaceutical inventor who is reputed to just want to get mainstream influence and respect, and his VERY limousine-liberal/progressive daughter Nika. Nika had initially taken a heavy hand in pushing news coverage at the LAT in a very progressive "abolish the police" direction, but there has been some backlash. Her dad does not share her ideological priors, it seems.

I wonder what the reasons are for the LA times owner saying don't endorse Kamala

The rumors I saw when this dropped were that the owner has some kind of family connection to Palestine, but I don't know whether those rumors have since been substantiated.

Arguably, Kamala has been so noncommittal about policy that there is nothing there to endorse. She could walk up to the podium on Inauguration Day, pull off a lifelike rubber mask to reveal that she was actually Donald Trump in disguise all along, and she still wouldn’t technically be violating any of her stated campaign promises.

FYI, gotta approve that one, it's showing as filtered for me. Get that mod hat on and let that post through!

(Or don't, I don't actually know what's in it.)

The LA Times owner's daughter is a very vocal Palestine supporter and is closely involved with the paper.