This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
On the face of it, all power eventually gets deposed so it will eventually end. The question is whether that end is close or far to us.
I think that the levels of incompetence being displayed now are alarming and that the loss of belief in the legitimacy of this order is further alarming.
The real problem isn't so much that people stopped believing in academia. They can and have been beaten into submission. The problem is that academia has stopped producing accurate results, which means it will eventually stop believing in itself. Hard managerialism burns hotter but not longer.
The good news (for managers) is that some of their leaders have started to take notice. I could hardly believe seeing Eurocrats admit to themselves that they fucked their economy by overregulating but to their credit they did manage to at least vocalize it. How much of this has actually registered is an open question since their solution is apparently to regulate away the overregulation.
But the looming threat of conquest does seem to have shaken up some people to their duties. The question is now whether they can rein in their instincts and actually produce competent government or barring that whether they have the will to cling to the scepter in the face of everything.
The people who still believe in academia are currently at the highest seat of power: everyone whose parents benefited from the GI Bill (which was itself a horrific "eating the seed corn" event because it would precipitate this problem- and yes, that was passed under FDR, of course), and for whom academic credentials still meant something.
Those generations that came after academia transformed itself into a destructive welfare system won't rise to power for another 20-30 years; you'll never convince the Boomers that universities or management tracks need to be destroyed because they were the generation who primarily benefited from both the credential boosting their station, and the fact it served as their meal ticket into a new welfare system. These people are responsible for things like high school education rates being targets, and they'll never see the results of Goodhart's Law (that has resulted in swaths of illiterate populations), because illiterates can wipe Boomer asses just fine in the nursing home (and if they die due to medication mix-ups, they'll be too old to do anything about it).
Academia still produces welfare checks in a time of economic contraction; it is continuing to produce results.
Not everything is economic redistribution. For a society to work it needs a sense making apparatus, if only because the weapons it needs to defend itself have to actually work.
Now sure Academia is well able to produce sinecures, but can it reliably produce or attract and retain the sort of people who worked in the Manhattan Project, designed the F-15 or landed on the moon? And can they actually make their voices heard in crucial matters?
Of course not, those people go where competence is actually rewarded, and so they work for Elon Musk and technocapital now.
There's still people working for Space-X; they're coming from somewhere. I tend to suspect this is simply because STEM got eaten last, but got eaten it did, so this will be the last bunch.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link