This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
No. I never got into it.
What you've just described is the core message of the Bible.
I wish the literary character story of Christ in the New Testament was more appreciated. The entire point of The Agony in the Garden is that a literal God-Man, who is already assured of his salvation and the promise of paradise, not only doubts himself and his "role" in the story, but actively asks to avoid it;
Luke 22:42
Although his faith returns, Christ experiences this agony/passion all the way through his earthly death.
To me, that is a much more visceral and compelling exposition of "do your duty even in the face of fear/danger/death" because it is coming from a character who already has assurance of the outcome. It's a deeply metaphysical complexity.
Anyways, yeah, I guess LoTR Is neat.
That seems less compelling if more re assuring. If Christ can have doubt or a desire to not face the hard roads then so can I.
The difference is in LOTR you have people who are by and large sure that what they do won’t accomplish their goal (ie evil will prevail) and instead of trying to flee and eek out an okay life take a stand. And it is that hope against all odds (or estel) that overcomes evil.
Open the aperture a little bit and you get the countless stories of martyrdom (especially in the early Church) wherein the same principle is illustrated.
Again, I'm not saying that LoTR is not valuable or that it does not convey worthwhile virtue ethics.
Yes. Stephen for example. Swords and spears sound better.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link