This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You completely dodged the question. You made an explicit assertion that if the police had assessed Hill as a threat they would have shot multiple rounds into his window. How actually likely do you assess the probability of this outcome? Or are you just idly talking out of your ass, venting unspecified frustration about police, with no attempt to engage with the underlying statistical reality?
Yes, I say if some ordinary person rolls up the tinted windows between them and a cop at a stop that's already contentious, the cop is going to put a few rounds into the window and say he was afraid the driver was using the tinted window as cover to get out their own gun. And one "Hoffmeister25" would be among the first to defend said cop. There's no statistical question here -- most people don't do what Hill did, after all.
So what percentage of contentious traffic stops in which the driver disobeys police instructions do you think have the police open fire first?
Because there are a lot of dashcam and bodycam vids which show, undeniably, that the vast majority of police do not do what you are claiming they do. How many do you think you'd need to see to think differently?
More options
Context Copy link
Of course there’s a statistical question; there is some number of drivers who do, in fact, roll up their tinted windows, and of that subset of police interactions, there is a percentage in which this resulted in the discharge of a firearm by police. I’m asking you to estimate what that percentage is.
What I can tell you is that I have personally watched probably over a hundred police videos in which the specific scenario you’re describing - a driver rolls up the window on a police officer during a traffic stop - takes place, and I cannot recall a single one in which that alone has resulted in the officer firing a weapon. Furthermore, it would not be difficult - although it would be prohibitively time-consuming - for me to comb through the thousands of hours of police bodycam videos posted by the dozens of YouTube channels I follow which are dedicated to compiling just such videos, and to find you copious counterexamples to your claim.
Flatly, you just do not know what you’re talking about. The use of deadly force during traffic stops is infinitesimally rare in this country; police pull over more than 500,000 drivers every day in this country - more than 20 million motorists every year - and yet less than 1000 individuals are killed by police each year. (Apparently the current tally for 2024 is 836.) Traffic stops comprise only 7% of police uses of deadly force each year. There’s just no plausible reading of the data to support your assertion regarding how common the scenario you’re imagining actually takes place.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link