site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 9, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The numbers seem beyond belief so I wouldn't be surprised if the true number is much lower.

But I think that small towns with weak connections to centers of power will be the perfect dumping ground for the worst type of migrants. Think of what the last 50 years have done to the Rust Belt. It's clear that the powers-that-be are completely fine to throw this entire region into the trash bin for larger ends.

On the other hand, nicer areas seem to have the human capital to keep undesirables out. In Seattle, it's been said that when a tent appears in your local park, you need to go full Karen and get the first tent removed immediately. Because if you don't, a second tent will appear, then a third, and pretty soon it will be a real encampment with drugs, and rats, and murders. There are very few drug zombies in Magnolia, but the International District (ID) is crawling with them because the residents of the ID don't know how to organize and resist.

The same seems to be true with migrants. At some point, a non-profit or government agency must have started sending Haitians to Springfield. And they didn't have the human capital to resist. If the 20,000 number is accurate, I think it's fair to say the town is absolutely fucked and will be nearly 100% Haitian within 20 years.

I live nearby and can say, in support of your first point: Springfield, Ohio was already totally fucked, and therefore it's a great place to put migrants. It is a quintessential Rust Belt city that was hollowed out by deindustrialization; it is a satellite of Dayton, which is even worse off.

This is happening much more widely even than what is reported on. Down the street from me, the village of Lockland was gutted by the closure of the original Stearns & Foster mattress factory in the early 2000s (along with many industrial closures for decades prior, and even the closure of the original Miami & Erie Canal in the 1910s... Lockland is a hard-luck place); it is now being resettled by Mauritanians, with the enthusiastic support of local NGOs.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/finding-solutions/you-only-have-hope-hundreds-of-mauritanians-seeking-asylum-find-refuge-within-lockland-bike-shop

I guess for the record, Mauritanians that I have met have been nice to me personally, and I am not aware of them making particular problems for everyone; but it is also true that they have concentrated in one neighborhood and turned it into Little Mauritania. I suppose it's better than the building sitting empty as they had done previously; but I wish that my own culture had simply stayed there and built new things after the factories closed, instead of decamping to distant commuter towns like Mason. Easy for me to say, I suppose.

Who are these nameless faceless NGOs carving up the ethnic map of middle America like post-war European diplomats? What is their motivation? Who is funding them? Why does nobody care? Is right-wing media too incompetent to weave a narrative more complicated than "Democrats open-borders bad"?

https://www.vicrc.org/

This is the one that provides the most support in the specific case of Lockland; the director, John Keuffer, is quoted fairly often in the local news here. And as another commenter notes downthread, Catholic Charities is heavily involved. I used to spend a lot of time with a girl who is now a fairly high-ranking leader in this region's Catholic Charities organization - we worked at the same previous job together, and she kept me posted during the application process for the job with CC.

The impression that I get is: there is a substantial amount of people for whom helping people who claim to be hungry and homeless is a Good Thing, full stop; and any downstream consequences of that are not important to them, are not actually even considered, compared to this higher priority. It's quite hard to argue against it, especially with highly empathetic people: the people who already live in Springfield or Lockland are not, currently, hungry or homeless to the same degree, so of course their needs are considered second.

They are not faceless, the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society is one of the most important. You want a face? Here's a face.

HIAS @HIASrefugees map inside the Bajo Chiquito invader camp in Darien Gap, Panama is giving “migrants” instructions and maps on how to illegally enter the United States with printed instructions on how to reach each bus station, medic, and what the weather is going to be like on the way to the US.

While I was recording this video, there were thousands of invaders walking around inside the camp, waiting to be processed upon arriving from their jungle trek in the Darien Gap. I encountered invaders inside this camp from all over the world, including Afghanistan, Angola, Iran and Morocco.

There is so much irony in the fact that a JEWISH NGO (HIAS) is helping Muslims from terror tier countries and other places in Africa and the Middle East get to the United States illegally.

Here are their migrant centers throughout South America where they assist illegal immigrants in entering the United States. But wait, there aren't any dots in Haiti, so we can't attribute this mass ressetlement of Haitians to this NGO right?

HIAS hand-picked Alejandro Mayorkas, who is also Jewish, as Secretary of DHS which is responsible for the mass resettlement of these Haitians as well as of course other border policy. The HIAS endorsement of Mayorkas noted "A Biden Appointee who Carries the Jewish Story Itself." Mayorkas served on the board of HIAS through 2020.

Our Secretary of DHS, the one responsible for these Haitians being resettled into the United States, literally served on the board of a Jewish NGO that aims to carve up the ethnic map of middle America explicitly.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement is responsible for awarding grant money to NGOs that resettle refugees in cities around the country.

acf.hhs.gov/orr

I looked up a random state using that link. It shows some NGO called IRC - International Rescue Committee. So I asked them to tell me who they are:

https://www.rescue.org/who-we-are

Says one “David Miliband” is their president. Who is that? What is his background? So I asked Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miliband

Early life and family

Born in London, Miliband is the elder son of immigrant parents, Belgian-born Marxist sociologist Ralph Miliband and Polish-born Marion Kozak, both from Polish Jewish families.[1][7][8] The latter was a teacher before she became a homemaker. He was given the middle name of "Wright" after the American sociologist C. Wright Mills, a friend of his father.[9] He has said "I am the child of Jewish immigrants and that is a very important part of my identity."[7] Both his Polish Jewish paternal grandparents lived in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw. His paternal grandfather, Samuel, a trained leather worker, served in the Red Army in the Polish–Soviet War of 1919–1921 before moving to Belgium.

Oh.

Surely the more important point about David Miliband is that he was supposed to be the Leader of the Opposition in the UK after Labour lost the 2010 general election, but lost the leadership election to his more left-wing brother Ed and left for American in a huff.

The most important thing about International Rescue is that it is a secretive organisation based on Tracey Island which built a number of Elon-Musk-esque flying machines. The original agent on terra firma was Lady Penelope, but in this day and age a politician is needed rather than an aristocrat.

They're (often Catholic) 501(c)s getting billions of dollars through the federal government in ways that no one in Congress has the power to stop.
Got to CESglobal's financial page and see what $186,000,000 in government funding buys you. And that's just one drop in the bucket.

This is just the consequences of the total state falling into the hands of the left. Asking what you can do about it is as pointless as asking what you can do about Stalin's purges. The time to stop this was decades ago. Now there's nothing to do but suffer and try to find any way to stick a knife in your tormentors so they suffer some consequences for their evil.

I think if Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of congress they could withdraw from global refugee treaties and totally reform immigration law.

They won't, because they're cowards/idiots/grifters, but the problem is solvable in principle.

Same Catholics on here preaching away! This may be our first total agreement moment Steve. I'm 150% anti immigration.

Can this also be blamed on Vatican II?

Unlikely, as the theological foundations for the Catholic Church’s activism predate Vatican II by at least a decade. In 1952, Pius XII published Exsul Familia Nazarethana, which started off,

The émigré Holy Family of Nazareth, fleeing into Egypt, is the archetype of every refugee family. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, living in exile in Egypt to escape the fury of an evil king, are, for all times and all places, the models and protectors of every migrant, alien and refugee of whatever kind who, whether compelled by fear of persecution or by want, is forced to leave his native land, his beloved parents and relatives, his close friends, and to seek a foreign soil.

The church’s efforts were initially focused on providing priests, churches, seminaries, schools, hospitals, orphanages, etc., for Catholic populations that had already emigrated on their own to new places—all reasonable and positive efforts. However, political activism to encourage increased immigration started almost immediately after World War II, and increased dramatically in the wake of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Pius XII wrote the following to the American bishops on Dec. 24, 1948:

You know indeed how preoccupied we have been and with what anxiety we have followed those who have been forced by revolutions in their own countries, or by unemployment or hunger to leave their homes and live in foreign lands.

The natural law itself, no less than devotion to humanity, urges that ways of migration be opened to these people. For the Creator of the universe made all good things primarily for the good of all. Since land everywhere offers the possibility of supporting a large number of people, the sovereignty of the State, although it must be respected, cannot be exaggerated to the point that access to this land is, for inadequate or unjustified reasons, denied to needy and decent people from other nations, provided of course, that the public wealth, considered very carefully, does not forbid this.

Informed of our intentions, you recently strove for legislation to allow many refugees to enter your land. Through your persistence, a provident law was enacted, a law that we hope will be followed by others of broader scope. In addition, you have, with the aid of chosen men, cared for the emigrants as they left their homes and as they arrived in your land, thus admirably putting into practice the precept of priestly charity: “The priest is to injure no one; he will desire rather to aid all.” (St. Ambrose, “De Officiis ministrorum,” lib. 3, c. IX).

Even if the Catholics’ efforts hadn’t started off this way, it would only have been a matter of time before the Catholic refugee agencies started advocating for near unrestricted immigration, as the trajectory of the various Protestant churches’ refugee agencies demonstrates.

To give just one example, after WWI, the Lutheran churches in America established welfare agencies to provide aid to their coreligionists in Europe and to help resettle a small number of Lutherans in the United States. They did the same again after WWII, then began helping eastern Europeans (again, mostly Lutherans) who were fleeing persecution at the hands of the Soviets. Through the 1970s, Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Services (LIRS) shifted to hooking up anti-communist refugees from Cuba and Vietnam with local Lutheran congregations, so the latter could help them find housing, jobs, etc. After the end of the Cold War, many Lutherans kind of forgot that the organization existed, and evaporative cooling meant that die-hard immigration supporters were the only ones still invested enough to keep things running. With little financial support from congregations, they turned to the federal government for funding (made possible thanks to George Bush’s push for the government to partner with religious non-profits), and they used those funds to help bring in Africans, South and Central Americans, Afghanis, and others. In 2019, they hired a Hindu Democratic apparatchik (former Policy Director to First Lady Michelle Obama) as CEO, and earlier this year, with the skinsuiting of the organization complete, they eliminated “Lutheran” from their name and rebranded as “Global Refuge.”

All of which is to say, no matter how reasonable and uncontroversial these organizations’ actions may have been at the start, eventually they were all taken over by activists after their original mission had been accomplished. To prevent that, people need to learn to formally abolish organizations they are involved with once they have completed their original purpose, rather than step down from positions of leadership with the organization still intact.

Catholic Charities is the largest one. They contract with the fed gov and states to resettle people everywhere, if the local spot can handle it, great, if not, they don't give a shit. They plant people and move on, they get paid good money for it too.

At some point, a non-profit or government agency must have started sending Haitians to Springfield. And they didn't have the human capital to resist.

This is adjacent to the "they have homes, addresses, wives and children" meme. As in, commit violence against these people in retaliation for what they've done to you.

You mostly seem to come here and just offer hot takes. And "we should engage in violence" is too hot of a take. Antagonistic and culture warring. Ten day ban for now.