site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 2, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I would guess that, if my loved ones were murdered in a senseless and insane attack, I would prefer that it not be discussed as a CW jerkoff game for people on the internet. Which was always going to be the inevitable result once it was released. We're even seeing the rhetorical Judo throw where people are turning it into a CW jerkoff game about how it doesn't contain any/enough CW material. I can understand the families of the victims, or the school community as a whole, feeling it was not worth the psychological harm of having the story in the news longer than it needed to be to have the manifesto made public knowledge.

Grief does not generally lead people to wisdom, definitely not in the short-term, but I think it would be pretty obvious that suppressing the document would ensure that it gained more attention and extending the misery. If they'd just let the stupid thing be released, people would've stopped caring ages ago.

The only way to prevent the "CW jerkoff game" that would be a full media blackout starting at the same time as the shooting. Once you're thrust into the public eye, you no longer have any ability to stop that, and anything you do in public regarding the tragedy ultimately plays to one side or the other.

As I say elsewhere, such sentiment is to be expected from victims, but judges and LEOs are not supposed to let such things cloud their judgement.

Indeed, while you dismiss interest in the concealed as a judo move, I find it quite reasonable to argue that concealment made this story stick, which is the opposite of the intended purpose.

We sadly have things to compare this to. Randy Stair was trans and had an even more insane and lurid justification for his killings, and yet that dropped out of the news cycle like a stone. Because, well, who's going to argue about someone that obviously deluded.

People here should be all too familiar with scissor statements. It is ambiguity that breeds culture war. Straightforward things don't produce the engine like reaction of one side to the other that ignites these flamewars.

I think a much more reasonable way of ensuring the interest of everyone would have been to release this diary as evidence and to redact the name and personal details of the people Hale was infatuated with instead of entertaining these absurd adventures in copyright.