This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm not at all getting the feeling that those holy cows are dead, just that they're swept under the rug for now.
Everyone seems to have gotten the memo that they need to unite under glorious leader of joy Kamala and her bright unspecified future because the dems do believe in winning, But while it's easy keeping divisions unstated when you are this vague, she's going to have to concretize at some point. Either during the debates or when she actually has won and must have a policy.
Hell, if things made any sense, she'd have to concretize right now given she's the incumbent.
This entire illusion rests on the sole condition that nobody asks any hard questions so she can maintain ambiguity. It's not a bad strategy when the media is on your side, Obama ran on the same sort of emptiness, but it's very fragile.
Anything that brings back the news cycle to some hard reality could bring it all down. You can't be a windbag if the economy is crashing or some serious international incident is going on.
Is it fragile? Obama won re-election.
It also only has to hold for a couple of months
(Before someone says that Kamala is no Obama)
Hell, Virginia and Minnesota start voting in three weeks.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
A very different Obama won reelection. "Hope & Change" Obama vanished in a puff of smoke some time after he got his Peace prize.
It's not really a unique gamble, but Harris is uniquely audacious for attempting it while still being in office.
Sure, but ‘Hope and Change’ Obama was replaced by ‘I guess he’s not that bad, there’s no urgent need for [further] change’ Obama, and that kind of continuity is exactly what Harris is about. People saying “I guess the present isn’t too bad, and I dislike Trump”, and indeed that describes a lot of voters.
It's what she's trying alright, but imagine Obama running on "Hope and Change" in 2012 after being in office for a full mandate and right in the tailwinds of the 2008 crisis. Much harder sell.
We don't have a 2008 crisis on our hands yet (things suck but its a rotting, not collapsed economic house), and the wrecking ball of an economic failure will annihilate Harris just as badly regardless of her party discipline. My point is that a portion of the animus motivating people against democrats from 2020 to 2023 have dissipated with the retreat of the progressive cultists. It will be a while before they can resurrect their unpopular totems, and in the meantime the Republican's are flailing against shadows. 2024 Harris isn't spewing progressive bullshit like in 2020, and her current brevity has let her deflate much of the invective flung against her I'm also not sure pinning her down is an automatic win for Trump; a blow has to land and Harris being brief on specifics and long on Joy somehow stinks of Bait to lure in a bad attack from Trump.
If Trump can stay on message and hammer Harris on the border and the economy consistently, he takes November. Right now though he's just whining and rambling.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Obama did, but he stopped pulling down ticket races up by his coattails in 2012.
More options
Context Copy link
Romney ran a bad campaign on what could have been a winnable election. Obama is still viewed fawningly by his supporters, but presided over a tremendous drop in elected Democratic officials nationwide. His presidency directly lead to the election of Trump. In exchange, liberals got... Obamacare?
Sotomayor, Kagan, and potentially Garland. Plus the various court victories and budget squabbles that benefited from a Democrat in office.
Obamacare was disappointing, but in a way which made it easy to demonize Republicans. “Real socialized healthcare has never been tried!” Neither Trump nor Biden really delivered on a corresponding promise. Maybe signature legislation is just unlikely in this political climate?
The Obama presidency definitely lead to the Tea Party, and from there maybe to Trump. There was also an interesting post in the old country which argued he specifically hollowed out the Democrat roster. I’m still reluctant to assign blame/credit for Trump, though. In the counterfactual where Trump had a heart attack before ever announcing his bid, I don’t see Republicans running anyone remotely comparable.
More options
Context Copy link
So, while there were legitimate issues with Obama and his team's larger running of the Democratic Party, it's important to remember that of the supposed 1,000 legislative seats lost, 150 were in NH alone (because NH is weird and has a massive 400 seat legislature with lots of weird swings), and a lot more were in rural Yellow Dog seats in places like Arkansas, Mississippi, and so forth that were basically doomed the moment they could be put in a flyer next to a black Democratic President in a way that wasn't true of John Kerry or Al Gore.
I would say the nomination of Hillary and James Comey's choices of what to announce and when is what led to the election of Trump, but I'm aware the latter is the minority position here.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link