Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
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Notes -
With Bidenflation, it's more like 7/7/7 now.
I'm joking of course, couldn't resist. But, as with all jokes, there's silent syllables of truth here.
I had an idea for an effort most called "CGTOWs - Chad's Going Their Own Way." If you aren't familiar with the MGTOW term this is based off, I encourage a quickly Google. It isn't hard to grok the concept.
Mostly through some outsized and, frankly, random, career success, I move in circles utterly inundated with 6/6/6s - and then (not quite literal) 7/7/7s etc. I am consistently surprised by the amount of single by choice Men wandering around. I don't mean "why get married when I can live the sweet bachelor life forever." I mean "I budget zero time and devote zero effort to dating." Some are full on celebate.
The anecdotal reasons are all over the place. Everything from bizarrely starry-eyed "Mrs. Right will find me one day!" dreamy-ness all the way to onyx-blackpilled "she devils, the lot of them!" jeremiads. I don't quite have a Grand Unified Theory for this (which is why the effortpost is still unwritten) but one of the vague themes I was able to get my arms around was the fact that it seems the modal upwardly mobile woman seems to have a preoccupation for very compelling vibes over hard, but boring, quantifiable qualities.
To be a little brief and trite, these professional dater women are interested in a Man who has a story-arc compelling personal mission in life. Future politician, helps out the orphans, just got back from "being on the ground" in Gaza or something. The literal Chad who's 6'3" and is a founding partner in a local accounting firm (and pulling down north of $400,000) doesn't rate. He takes care of himself and knows how to flirt and socialize, he isn't going to cheat, he wants to have kids and pay a lot of attention to them. But he's ... wait for it ... boring.
And this was what was at the core of the PUA stuff. In a nutshell, it's advice was "go out and talk to people but don't do boring small talk. Also, sometimes insult girls for some reason."
There are comments on the influence of social media here, how women becoming economically independent might shift their relative prioritization of un-boringness, or maybe even a negative view of Football 'n Beer on the weekend bro culture.
The cause is up for debate, but the effect is real - the real life ChadYes.jpeg isn't chadding it up. The 21st century playboy is a walking Gen-Z face tattoo listening to his phone on speaker in public.
I'm an example single-by-choice bachelor (exactly as boring and without compelling vibes as you'd expect for a Motteposter).
The reason it makes sense to spend time and budget on lifting, hobbies, whatever is that there is guaranteed return on those things. If you are doing them wrong or struggling, and you ask people what you're doing wrong, people are helpful and they don't call you entitled for expecting to e.g. get gains because you work out. If you spend money on a hobby, it is normal to expect to have fun.
My (and maybe others?) learned helplessness with dating is that there is no return on investment. The average advice you find is probably anti advice. The idea that dating is like a hobby or like lifting, that you put in as much as you get out, is frankly contradicted by the zeitgeist.
"Bee urself" and "she'll find you" are cope: you're right. But we have to say it. If we admit otherwise, like you do, then we are admitting: people are entitled to dating success if they put in time and effort. You can't have it both ways.
And saying people are entitled to dating success would prescribe all sorts of patriarchy.
Agree throughout.
How would you respond to questions like "Are you worried about ending up alone?" or, on the other extreme, "Bro, don't you, like, wanna f*ck?"
If you're curious, those questions come across to me like, "Are you worried about dying?" or, "Don't you want to live longer?"
(To speak plainly and literally, the short answer is "yes" and the long answer is "yes, and?")
This is broadly what I was expecting and something I agree with. I appreciate the direct response. There is no copium here.
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Quite familiar with MGTOW. Honestly I think most of them are just seething and coping.
PUAs are interesting. I read a few PUA books (not because I was trying to get into the scene, but because I was curious about what they actually say). They've discovered a lot of "redpill" truths which they make effective use of, but they also use what are basically some very basic psychological tricks that are just as effective in selling cars or negotiating a raise as they are in scoring dates, but they think they've stumbled onto some secret key to unlock the female psyche. The other thing that struck me was that at least for most PUAs, their stories seem to rarely end in happy long-term relationships, but an initial euphoria as they get laid a lot, and then increasing, pathetic desperation as they keep seeking the thrill of the chase but realize that the women are all the same and the techniques to get them into bed are not the same as the techniques to build real relationships.
Conversely, was very amusing how often you would find women saying "Oh, those lines are so obvious, this stuff would never work on me..." Guess who she ends up going home with?
This is the "end where you started" truth of the old school PUA lifestyle. Neil Strauss, the journalist who wrote The Game detailed this (more or less) on his own blog.
The guys who really do it and make pick up their focus in life have a high incidence of bad outcomes; mental breakdowns, alcoholism and drug addiction, and, most often, a sincere feeling of existential dread. It's just another branch of the pure hedonism failure mode.
The epilogues tell the tale. One, a guy named Roosh, went hardcore Orthodox Christian. Another, I forget the names now, has had a second act career as a non-anonymous blogger / YouTube warning of the dangers of pickup and recommending pretty basic bro-self-improvement advice (lift, get a good job, try to start a stable family). I think a lot of the more minor figures got on board that MAGA train in a big way.
I can't say that I ever got into or around that world, but it strikes me, as an observer, as very similar to the world of money obsession. I have seen up close how people - who have made getting money into their reason for existence - actually react when they get rich.
There is one common and established career path to brute force your way to getting wealthy - Investment Banking. It is quite guaranteed, but with no skill other than being able to work 100 hours weeks for a few years and absolutely zero concern for anything besides the career, you can grind your way to at least a few million dollars of net worth by the time you're 35 or 40. Most fall off before then because they (correctly) see it isn't worth it. The really smart ones are out quick to doing something else that is always (a) more fulfilling and (b) often somehow equal or greater in compensation. But the ones who stick around, easily half have a full blown existential crisis when they "walk away" with their "fat stacks."
It's not as simple as "oh, they realized money doesn't buy happiness." It's that this goal they had designed for themselves was not only ephemeral once achieved, but the cost of achieving it was the sacrifice of anything and everything else that may have actually led to happiness; deep friendships, finding a spouse, hell even a fun hobby. I'd actually compare it on purpose to being an adult illiterate - it must be terrifying to be without what seems like a basic and necessary skillset at what feels like a relative advanced age. A lot of these guys (and it's always men) have forgotten so completely how to form non-transactional relationships that they either become half-recluse / half-autistic cocaine party animal or literally go through a period of re-socialization not unlike someone "coming home" from prison.
I can see how hardcore PUA dudes would be similar. Every interaction with a woman becomes an win/loss situation. I can't imagine the ones going out three or four times a week to practice the PUA stuff have otherwise normal hobbies with a stable friend group. Spouse? Forget it. Hobbies? PUA. Career? PUA. And then, when they figure out that another random roll in the hay with an Appleby's Waitress no longer interests them, it's not the waking up alone that does them in, be realizing that the paid the cost for howevermany years ... just to wake up alone.
Opportunity cost and compound interest - they're a real bitch.
If you worked in finance, you'd know that.
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