This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The retort doesn't work on people that aren't already sold. If you buy into general left-leaning positions, the relevant dynamic isn't about how long someone's been there, it's about the oppressor-oppressed axis, and you're the oppressor even if you're residing in the homeland of your ancestors.
Leftists use the oppressor oppressed axis to force their chosen enemy as the source of all ill regardless of provenance. The Hutus murdered Tutsis because of Belgian colonialism, the Turks genocided Armenians because of the Crusades, the Indonesians killed East Timor at US direction. There is no sincere belief in the oppressor oppressed axis, merely an exploitable meta founded in conspiracism and justified by postmodern dialectics.
I hadn't heard that one before.
More options
Context Copy link
That's not true. I know enough progressives to tell you this is something that's sincerely believed by at least a lot.
I agree that they employ this rhetorical device constantly. I disagree that they believe it, at least in any permutation where belief relies on understanding. The contorting of reality to ensure their chosen pets are ALWAYS oppressed regardless of their active exercise of their own power lays bare the hollowness of their oppressor/oppressed framing. Copts are oppressed by Egyptians because of British colonialism, ISIS had no choice but to enslave and murder Yazidis because Islam was corrupted by Israel, the Janjaweed are executing Masalit boys (actual neotenous prepuberty boys, not 17 year old bearded 'children') because of western imperialism. The chosen oppressed have no agency when they exercise said agency actively and openly, the oppressor is somehow ALWAYS someone the progressive hates.
The meta is quite clear: be absolutely shameless when committing crimes and always blame white people. It is a useless strategy in actually developing your cultures capability and income, but it is a cheat code for unlimited cover to continue being brutal to your enemies.
The progressive information environment is extremely good at weeding out people who Notice, and also extremely good at keeping people too angry to Notice themselves. Also, have you met IQ 100 people? If you require a full understanding to accord "belief", most IQ 100 people have no political beliefs.
Yea the internal curation of progressives is impressive. Wrongthink is immediately excised, and more impressively their adherents default to shibboleths. Fundamentally I maintain it is displaced religiosity, promising moral absolution for existing as long as unlimited support for Social Justice is maintained. My progressive friends posted articles about Israelis investigating prisoner rape in response to my highlighting of the ISIS Taylor Swift attempted attack. I honestly think Swifties would have been happier to be attacked and murdered since they get to proclaim #hopenothate. Instead their concert gets cancelled and they get no opportunity for performance.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link