site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 5, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

As a flag nerd I actually followed this process as it was happening. The original submissions are still up here: https://serc.mnhs.org/flags

An advocacy org but together a shorter list of the ones they liked here: https://newmnflag.org/designs

My personal favorite was #1304: https://21588026.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21588026/Imported%20images/1cc6671bd76cede520772dafec0adfa2effd303d81b709c42ec59b16f5aff59c.png

There's been a recent push to change a whole plethora of state flags to look more akin to Microsoft Office clipart just because some rando with delusions of competency put out a pamphlet of what he thinks state flags should look like.

There are some people who really should have been bullied more in high school.

The old Minnesota flag was kind of dogshit, but the new one is too far into current year /r/vexillology trends, so I can understand why people were unhappy with it.

I generally like a lot of the vexillology flag ideas and am generally a proponent of flag reform. When it offers a good and memorable design, I think it serves as a great icon for a community.

But I think one of the issues is that they're deciding on flags by committee (or in NZ, by voting), and so you end up with bland, inoffensive, plain designs that don't take any risks -- and one of the big points for flag reform is specifically so different places can have distinct, interesting flags. Minnesota got to their flag by taking the blandest design and making it blander. That sea of light blue is just too bright.