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Israel SHOULD wash its hands entirely. Give a two or three state solution to Gaza and West Bank. At this time Gaza subsists entirely off Israeli power and water supplies, with Egypt contributing water. West Bank has water but their people keep undermining the water table with illegal wells, and domestic power generation is anemic.
Both territories literally exist off the Israeli provided resources. When Israel cuts off power to Gaza, I always ask why the fuck is Gaza taking power from the jews they hate so much in the first place and why Israel is obligated to continue giving free food water and electricity to a population that enthusiastically showed their desire to rape and murder civilians.
Palestinians have in fact been betrayed, but by their Arab allies and not the Jews. The arabs made promises to drive away the jew (to seize palestine for themselves in a carveup), but a combination of incapability and self-preservation saw continued action against Israel as ineffective. The betrayal is that the arabs left the palestinians in the care of the hated jew, insteaf of taking them in for themselves as per the 1948 borders, and creating the UNRWA which gives palestinians permanent refugee status so palestinians in lebanon, syria and egypt will never receive citizenship.
WHY the palestinians were betrayed is quite obviously because the palestinians are chaotic terrorist dicks who fomented terrorism and conflicts which ravaged the sinai and lebanon and jordan, but that doesn't change the fact that the arabs still washed their hands of 'their own' people. Arab israelis live far better lives than the arab populations of the other countries, and if the gazans/palestinians were not irredentist incompetent dickheads the semisecular cooperative jewish muslim utopia of progressive dreams might actually emerge. As it stands that dream is just a wistful ancient instastory rotting in the cupboard of abandoned dreams, one of many delusions that wither under the slightest exposure to reality.
This is one thing that gives me pause when people advocate for UBI: I'm sure it could be done better, but our examples in the world of populations that are entirely supported by unconditioned aid seem to, by most objective metrics, fare really poorly (see also Haiti). At some point, it seems like having at least a bit of skin in the game incentivizes thinking on something other than how to destroy the hand that feeds. There is probably an interesting dystopian novel to be written there, somewhere.
Not that the existing systems are otherwise perfect, either.
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Yeah, I agree with all of this. But it won't fix the problem long term.
Maybe in a year or two the current conflict will simmer down. Hamas will be defeated. They'll give back a few token hostages and kill the rest. The US and Europe will give Gaza like $100 billion dollars to rebuild. President Harris will win the Nobel Peace Prize. Things will approach normalcy. A round of back pats all around. Blue-eyed European aristocrats will give talks at Davos about how great the international system is.
Then Iran or someone else will give Gaza weapons, they will attack Israel, and the cycle will repeat. They just keep doing the same stupid things over and over and getting the same results. They hate Israel more than they love their own country. Until the world recognizes this there can be no peace.
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Soon after they do, they're in a war with both, and end up more or less back where they started.
Exactly, but now it's a war against belligerent states instead of a heavy handed action by an occupying power. Egypt was begging to be allowed at a peace table after Israels counterattack in the Yom Kippur war, and so will the gazans when they discover the jew is not in fact a weak coward.
Why would it make a difference that they're a de jure state rather than merely a de facto one? Gaza was not occupied in any real sense before 10/7.
Gaza was getting power and water and open borders for aid from Israel because Israel is an 'occupying power'. As a foreign state it is entitled to nothing, much less as a hostile one.
Yes, but the inevitable result of them becoming a hostile state de jure is no different than them being a hostile state de facto. Israel wages war against them, wins, and is then once again an 'occupying power' with the obligations that entails.
Being an occupying power sucks. Being the external wrecking ball is fucking fantastic. Ukraine isn"t castigated for wrecking Russian power and economy, not in the same way whining libs protest Israel. You get so much less stupid shit lobbed your way when you are retaliating against an asshole. Even Saudi got cover in response to the Houthi attacks, its only the Kashoggi killing that tanked Saudis international support.
The difference is who/whom, not the de jure state of Gaze vs Ukraine. Israel was responding to an attack; that got them a few weeks of support before the river-to-the-sea people got their act together.
Yea that is a pretty strong possibility that people dislike Russia more than they dislike Hamas, as blindingly stupid as that is Nevertheless nothing obligates Israel to act as an occupier as well, and more importantly nothing obligates Israel to supply power water and food to Gaza. Without Israel the Gazan population would be 20% what it currently is because that strip of land cannot support a populations food and water requirements, much less power and shelter. As a foreign hostile state Israel will get the back and forth of rockets and militants and broken ceasefires, but Israel will not be obligated to give free water and food or open its borders to trade with a hostile neighbour. Let Gaza open its border with Egypt and set up its own port and airport, which still must be free of military function lest they lose their protected status too. I won't hold my breath
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